Means to Have TJ surgery

[waroriole]

On 12/6/2022 at 2:28 PM, Jim'sKid26 said:

Is he really perceived as that fragile? That seems very disappointing. Those are the type of IP numbers that make you feel like he might not be much of a factor in 2023.

Just curious why you feel that way. Do you have "inside info" that leads you to believe he will be treated as such?

How many innings do you think Grayson pitches? I’d put it more at 130-140, but he’s definitely gonna be restricted. 

[Moose Milligan]

Hope he's right about the Super Bowl.

[MarCakes21]

On 12/6/2022 at 2:21 PM, Tony-OH said:

I think we see Means take over Grayson Rodriguez starts by August with maybe Rodriguez going on the IL with something until September. There are going to be careful with Rodriguez this year. I'd be surprised if he pitches over 125 innings this year.

I'd be intrigued with this method.  If we're making a stretch run, I'd prefer both these guys available, in whatever innings managed earlier in the season for GRod that means.

[wildcard]

On 12/6/2022 at 2:21 PM, Tony-OH said:

I think we see Means take over Grayson Rodriguez starts by August with maybe Rodriguez going on the IL with something until September. There are going to be careful with Rodriguez this year. I'd be surprised if he pitches over 125 innings this year.

This is close to my thinking.   I think GRod gets 20 starts and 100 IP. That should take him to the end of July.   Then they either make him a 2 inning reliever or an opener for the next 10 outings pitching him once every  5 or 6 games.     That would add up to 120 IP for the season.

I guess the IL is possible or optioning him to AAA but I think the O's would like to see him get 30 appearances  without the wear that being a full time starter would cause.

Means is projected to be back in July so they may to some overlap but  not much.

[ChuckS]

27 minutes ago, wildcard said:

This is close to my thinking.   I think GRod gets 20 starts and 100 IP. That should take him to the end of July.   Then they either make him a 2 inning reliever or an opener for the next 10 outings pitching him once every  5 or 6 games.     That would add up to 120 IP for the season.

I guess the IL is possible or optioning him to AAA but I think the O's would like to see him get 30 appearances  without the wear that being a full time starter would cause.

Means is projected to be back in July so they may to some overlap but  not much.

There is no way (in my opinion) that we pull GRod from the rotation in July because of innings.  Perhaps if we are completely out of it. Otherwise, I expect to see him pitch most of, it not the entire season in the rotation with his innings possibly curtailed in September.  

Didn't Elias say in an interview recently that there was no hard innings limit for Rodriguez?   

[interloper]

4 minutes ago, ChuckS said:

There is no way (in my opinion) that we pull GRod from the rotation in July because of innings.  Perhaps if we are completely out of it. Otherwise, I expect to see him pitch most of, it not the entire season in the rotation with his innings possibly curtailed in September.  

Didn't Elias say in an interview recently that there was no hard innings limit for Rodriguez?   

Kiiiind of. It was more like, we don't have a number in mind and it's gonna be an individual thing on a nightly basis how we handle guys. 

I think you're right though - Grayson will stick in the rotation. But I think especially early on they're going to keep him at, like, 5 innings or less depending on if he's cruising or working through a bunch of base runners, etc. Almost a piggyback situation, but not quite. That'd be my guess. 

[Frobby]

I’ll worry about GRod’s innings when he’s shown himself capable of throwing 5+ innings on a consistent basis at the major league level (i.e., he’s not running up against pitch limits or just getting bashed around in the early innings).   We’ve seen plenty of rookie starters struggle early and thus naturally limit their own inning’s totals.   Hopefully GRod won’t have that issue, but I won’t just assume it.

[Tony-OH]

It will be interesting to see how this year goes with Grod when it comes to innings. I'd love to see them take the gloves off and let him get 150+ innings, but they have not shown the interest in doing so in the past when it comes to their pitchers. 

Rodriguez has never pitched more than 103 innings in any season as a professional and is coming off a 75.2 inning season. He'll pitch at 23 years old next year so he's not a spring chicken anymore so maybe they do let him go out there an pitch, and as long as he looks strong, let him keep going.

[MarCakes21]

I could see moving to a GRod/Means piggyback option, after starting the season with a GRod/Wells/Voth piggyback option towards the early part of the season.  In the Caravan session, Hyde said that GRod would be monitored for innings/pitches.

[jamalshw]

I could see Rodriguez basically get 75-80 pitches a start. I could also see Wells or Voth get spot starts here and there to give Rodriguez (and the rest of the rotation an extra day off here and there). Once Means is back (and assuming we aren't decimated by injuries) we could also see a 6-man rotation in place throughout August. 

Back to the original topic (Means), I know we heard July from Elias, but I still have him in my mind as more of an August guy. It'll also be interesting to see how he actually looks this year as guys coming off Tommy John can sometimes be slow to bounce back. 

[Just Regular]

I heard Shane McClanahan mentioned as a workload comp for rookie season.

McClanahan was 25/125, but they started him slow.    MLB regular season debut was held to 4/29 (he'd pitched in October 2020).    First 8 appearances he only attained 20 Batters Faced once, and that was in a 12-5 game where he was going for his first Win.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/gl.fcgi?id=mcclash01&t=p&year=2021

He then cleared 5 innings 15 of his last 16 turns before a 3-inning tune up for a postseason appearance.

 

[wildcard]

16 hours ago, jamalshw said:

I could see Rodriguez basically get 75-80 pitches a start. I could also see Wells or Voth get spot starts here and there to give Rodriguez (and the rest of the rotation an extra day off here and there). Once Means is back (and assuming we aren't decimated by injuries) we could also see a 6-man rotation in place throughout August. 

Back to the original topic (Means), I know we heard July from Elias, but I still have him in my mind as more of an August guy. It'll also be interesting to see how he actually looks this year as guys coming off Tommy John can sometimes be slow to bounce back. 

Do you really think the O's will go to a 6 man rotation and limit the pen to 7 relievers. Bautista, Akin, Tate and Krehbiel all showed signs of overuse in September after Lopez was traded.

[sportsfan8703]

I think GR is going to be 75 and dive, with some extra days rest sprinkled in. Irvin and Gibson are the workhorses. The other parts of the rotation will be fluid. 

[tntoriole]

20 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

It will be interesting to see how this year goes with Grod when it comes to innings. I'd love to see the take the gloves off and let him get 150+ innings, but they have not shown the interest in doing so in the past when it comes to their pitchers. 

Rodriguez has never pitched more than 103 innings in any season as a professional and is come off a 75.2 inning season. He'll pitch at 23 years old next year so he's not s spring chicken anymore so maybe they do let him go out there an pitch and as long as he looks strong, let him keep going.

I agree.  The coddling and obsession about pitch counts seemingly do little to prevent TJ surgeries and other problems. 

[Frobby]

4 hours ago, wildcard said:

Do you really think the O's will go to a 6 man rotation and limit the pen to 7 relievers. Bautista, Akin, Tate and Krehbiel all showed signs of overuse in September after Lopez was traded.

I’m kind of getting off point here, but the trade of Lopez did not cause these pitchers to be overused.   The bullpen actually pitched significantly fewer innings per game in the second half (3.65) than in the first half (4.08).   Akin, Tate and Krehbiel all were used more sparingly in the second half than in the first.  They may have gotten tired, but I’d say it had nothing to do with the Lopez trade.   Bautista was used a trivial amount more in the second half (0.41 IP/G vs. 0.40), though he tended to have longer outings than in the first half.

Back to your point, I think if the team went to a six-man rotation, the trade-off would have to be that the starters would throw more IP/start than under a 5-man rotation.  Otherwise, you’re right that the bullpen will get overtaxed.   

It’s encouraging to see that our starters carried a decent load in the second half of the season.  I hope to see more of that this year.