How close are Grayson and Bradish to a call up?

[Jammer7]

On 4/25/2022 at 12:35 PM, OriolesMagic83 said:

I would rather replace Harvey with some random guy.  Not a fan of his for many reasons, the main one being contributing to another player's death.  Can't believe he's not suspended. 

If he did not supply the drugs that led to the overdose, he is not responsible, in any legal way, for contributing to the overdose. You can argue that he has some issues with sale/distribution of a controlled substance, schedule 2 drugs, a felony crime. But the overdose is not on him in any way, shape or form.

The only other thing I would say, if anyone thinks this is not extremely common in, not only clubhouses in MLB, but in society in general, then I think we’re being naive. That is not to condone Matt’s actions, because I do not. There used to be bowls in clubhouses with uppers and downers, very readily available in the 60’s, 70’s and 80’s. This is according to many players and coaches I have spoken with, and many article I have read.

There truly is an opiod epidemic out there. Fentanyl, in particular, is killing people left and right. Oxycodone is not one I have seen a common overdose risk. It can be, just not one I see a lot. 

 

[Aristotelian]

37 minutes ago, Jammer7 said:

If he did not supply the drugs that led to the overdose, he is not responsible, in any legal way, for contributing to the overdose. You can argue that he has some issues with sale/distribution of a controlled substance, schedule 2 drugs, a felony crime. But the overdose is not on him in any way, shape or form.

 

 

The comment you quoted said he contributed to the death. Did not make any reference to legal liability. 

The comment did say Harvey should be suspended by MLB which does not seem unreasonable for distributing drugs in the clubhouse. 

[Jammer7]

10 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

The comment you quoted said he contributed to the death. Did not make any reference to legal liability. 

The comment did say Harvey should be suspended by MLB which does not seem unreasonable for distributing drugs in the clubhouse. 

I’m not sure how to respond to that, other than to say that one has nothing to do with the other. 

[Tony-OH]

1 hour ago, Jammer7 said:

I don’t remember you being so jaded. Sorry to see that.

Elias has a plan, and a strong conviction to stick to it. Only time will tell, and it does seem to take a lot of time, absolutely. No 2020 minor league season, and really limited opportunities to work on their game overall, certainly hurt every prospect. He is being understandably cautious, I think. All teams have injuries, but he is trying to mitigate them somewhat. 

For example, look at all of the college pitchers who have been sidelined with major injuries this year. Most of them were in high round consideration. The theory is that they carried too much of a load, too quickly. Most are TJ surgeries. Yikes.

I think he could have promoted Adley in July/August last year, but decided to wait. And I thought Bradish should have made the team in camp, but I understand being cautious with him. I also realize we do not have all of the information they do when considering the health of these guys. I would also point out the very aggressive promotions of Stowers, Westburg and Henderson in 2021. These fly directly in the face of all of the criticism Elias gets for being “too conservative.”

He truly espouses the nature of player development. I find no fault in that, but I can understand your frustration. Hang in there. By the end of the year, we should have Adley, Grayson, DL, Stowers and Bradish up in the show. I am hoping Westburg, Vavra, Nevin, Neustrom, and a few others make it up this year as well. 

Let me fix that for you, "He truly espouses the player control window allotted him by a flawed CBA." 

Let's be very clear, the only reason Grayson is not in the big leagues right now and probably won't be until June or July is to make sure he can't win the rookie of the year and lose a year of eligibility. Basically Elias is trading his year 22nd year (2022) for his 28th year (2028) when he hopes the Orioles will be in contention. I'm beginning to think Adley's slow recovery and rehab is for similar purposes.

It probably makes sense from an organizational perspective, especially one that clearly does not think it can sign it's core players to long term extensions. 

No matter what they say they are doing, they are manipulating these players to try and have them ready to compete next year and beyond.

 

 

 

[deward]

25 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

Let me fix that for you, "He truly espouses the player control window allotted him by a flawed CBA." 

Let's be very clear, the only reason Grayson is not in the big leagues right now and probably won't be until June or July is to make sure he can't win the rookie of the year and lose a year of eligibility. Basically Elias is trading his year 22nd year (2022) for his 28th year (2028) when he hopes the Orioles will be in contention. I'm beginning to think Adley's slow recovery and rehab is for similar purposes.

It probably makes sense from an organizational perspective, especially one that clearly does not think it can sign it's core players to long term extensions. 

No matter what they say they are doing, they are manipulating these players to try and have them ready to compete next year and beyond.

 

 

 

I agree that this is definitely the plan, but the risks of this approach strike me as very high. The Matt Harvey talk got me thinking about the Mets collection of prized young pitchers from a few years back, and how they turned out. Harvey, for example, hit the big leagues at age 23, but was done as a TOR starter by age 27. Noah Syndergaard made 24 starts in the big leagues at age 22, but seems like he also might be done as a TOR starter by age 26. Jacob DeGrom stands out as the oddity, not making his debut until age 26, but still looking dominant until he got hurt last year. That Mets trio is just one example, but I think it illustrates the point that, as much as we all hope for Rodriguez to anchor a rotation for 15 years, it's entirely possible that 2022-2024/5 are his best years, and Elias may well let him burn half of one of those years in AAA. The logic behind manipulating service time if there is no intention of trying to compete this year (which there obviously isn't) makes sense, but it's also a gamble that GrayRod's prime is still ahead of him, rather than right now.

[Can_of_corn]

5 minutes ago, deward said:

I agree that this is definitely the plan, but the risks of this approach strike me as very high. The Matt Harvey talk got me thinking about the Mets collection of prized young pitchers from a few years back, and how they turned out. Harvey, for example, hit the big leagues at age 23, but was done as a TOR starter by age 27. Noah Syndergaard made 24 starts in the big leagues at age 22, but seems like he also might be done as a TOR starter by age 26. Jacob DeGrom stands out as the oddity, not making his debut until age 26, but still looking dominant until he got hurt last year. That Mets trio is just one example, but I think it illustrates the point that, as much as we all hope for Rodriguez to anchor a rotation for 15 years, it's entirely possible that 2022-2024/5 are his best years, and Elias may well let him burn half of one of those years in AAA. The logic behind manipulating service time if there is no intention of trying to compete this year (which there obviously isn't) makes sense, but it's also a gamble that GrayRod's prime is still ahead of him, rather than right now.

That has been one of my refrains.  With a lot of these guys you don't want year seven.

I think he gamed Mountcastle, and sad to say, right now, he doesn't look like a guy you care about in year seven.

[ChuckS]

That’d be a really long rehab assignment for Adley to clear Super 2.

With Grayson Rodriguez and DL Hall it’s more believable. 

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, ChuckS said:

That’d be a really long rehab assignment for Adley to clear Super 2.

With Grayson Rodriguez and DL Hall it’s more believable. 

When he was announced to have a triceps pull over a month ago did any of us think he wouldn't be in a game yet?

Anyway, it's a minor league rehab assignment, it can turn into a stint at AAA. 

 

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

21 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

When he was announced to have a triceps pull over a month ago did any of us think he wouldn't be in a game yet?

Anyway, it's a minor league rehab assignment, it can turn into a stint at AAA. 

 

We got this report on Rutschman on April 2nd and it took until today for him to start playing in game action again after initially being hurt on March 11th. 

Rutschman 'doing extremely well' in rehab process

 

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, OsFanSinceThe80s said:

We got this report on Rutschman on April 2nd and it took until today for him to start playing in game action again after initially being hurt on March 11th. 

Rutschman 'doing extremely well' in rehab process

 

And he just hit a double.  Call him up!

[seak05]

I'm very curious about Bradish's start tomorrow, if the Orioles are looking for him to start Saturday, might only go a couple innings 

[Sports Guy]

9 minutes ago, seak05 said:

I'm very curious about Bradish's start tomorrow, if the Orioles are looking for him to start Saturday, might only go a couple innings 

They aren’t 

[Jammer7]

4 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

Let me fix that for you, "He truly espouses the player control window allotted him by a flawed CBA." 

Let's be very clear, the only reason Grayson is not in the big leagues right now and probably won't be until June or July is to make sure he can't win the rookie of the year and lose a year of eligibility. Basically Elias is trading his year 22nd year (2022) for his 28th year (2028) when he hopes the Orioles will be in contention. I'm beginning to think Adley's slow recovery and rehab is for similar purposes.

It probably makes sense from an organizational perspective, especially one that clearly does not think it can sign it's core players to long term extensions. 

No matter what they say they are doing, they are manipulating these players to try and have them ready to compete next year and beyond.

 

 

 

Maybe we’re both right? We don’t entirely agree, and that’s fine. There is certainly merit to what you have said. I will say that it is a non-traditional way of doing business. Caution with young arms, in particular, is a good thing, IMO. How many young promising power arms over the years have you seen fizzle out? A very high percentage.

In their early to mid 20’s, athletes have developed to the point where they best handle the rigors of a full professional season. Look at the stable of young power arms the Mets had just 7-8 years ago. Only DeGrom remains a stud. Thor is making a comeback after a long injury history. We know the Matt Harvey story. They had the LH starter, name escapes me, who was supposed to be the next great arm in line, and he is barely still in the league.

I guess we’ll see which reason was most important to them when we begin the competitive cycle. If they suddenly shift to a more rapid progression, then we’ll know you, and others, were correct. 

[Tony-OH]

Just now, Jammer7 said:

Maybe we’re both right? We don’t entirely agree, and that’s fine. There is certainly merit to what you have said. I will say that it is a non-traditional way of doing business. Caution with young arms, in particular, is a good thing, IMO. How many young promising power arms over the years have you seen fizzle out? A very high percentage.

In their early to mid 20’s, athletes have developed to the point where they best handle the rigors of a full professional season. Look at the stable of young power arms the Mets had just 7-8 years ago. Only DeGrom remains a stud. Thor is making a comeback after a long injury history. We know the Matt Harvey story. They had the LH starter, name escapes me, who was supposed to be the next great arm in line, and he is barely still in the league.

I guess we’ll see which reason was most important to them when we begin the competitive cycle. If they suddenly shift to a more rapid progression, then we’ll know you, and others, were correct. 

Under Elias, he was given one legitmate starting pticher in John Means, and two top pitching prospects in Grayson Rodriguez and DL Hall. 

Means is having TJ surgery and Hall hasn't pitched in a minor league game since May of last year. 

So despite all the pampering and lack of pitch counts and rehabbing guys, they don't exactly have a stellar record no do they? 

At the end of the day, Bradish and Rodriguez are in the minors because of controllability concerns and Adley Rutschman has the slowest rehab known to man for a tricep strain for the same reason.

Whether this all works out or not will be known by 2023 or 2024. It's clear to me that Elias has no intention of winning at the major league level for the 4th straight season in his rebuild.

[Jammer7]

6 hours ago, maybenxtyr said:

There's no guarantees that keeping players in the minors for extended periods will change the outcome either. There's always going to be an adjustment.

Yes, that is true that there will always be adjustments to be made. In their development plans, they have identified what benchmarks they believe need to be met to be successful to be promoted to each level. They believe that this progression is necessary to be the most successful player they are capable of being. He wants their confidence to be reinforced by being the most prepared player they can be.

I think this is a dogmatic way of doing things that may not be necessary for some elite players. The players they draft are players they believe will respond best to their ways of doing things.

For decades, smart Orioles fans have wanted people in charge who knew how to build a sustainable winner. We wanted a guy with a real plan, and strong people around him, who can get the organization to all pull on the same rope, in the same direction. We finally get it, and so many fans are critical because he sticks to his plan. I don’t know what else to say, honestly.