Angelos Family Fued

[wildcard]

32 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I read the article and it’s pretty vague.  It’s clear the authors don’t know exactly what the Ilich family trust documents say.  From the Lou Angelos complaint, it sounded like the Orioles weren’t in a trust - yet.   The trust documents were attached to the complaint but haven’t been published yet so far as I know.  

Anyway, I don’t think Georgia’s press release really clears the air about anything, other than it’s clear she’s siding with John and not trying to play the peacemaker.   That’s pretty clear.   
 

Sounds like its Louis vs his mother.   And she has done all the work to be in the position of power.   Sounds like he is all hat and no cattle.

If Louis is going to challenge her he better have something in writing from his father.

[Going Underground]

36 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Of course he’s authorized to speak for the Orioles.    He’s chairman and CEO and MLB has recognized him as the sole authority to speak for the team, as MLB’s rules require.   So far as I recall, Lou doesn’t allege that John was illegitimately named to those positions.   

I think he wanted to be an equal partner. He alleges that John pushed him out and manipulated his mom and John surrounded himself with yes men.

[Frobby]

9 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Sounds like its Louis vs his mother.   And she has done all the work to be in the position of power.   Sounds like he is all hat and no cattle.

If Louis is going to challenge her he better have something in writing from his father.

There were a few things in his complaint that struck me as possibly legitimate grounds for complaint, and others that sounded like sour grapes.    The case won’t be won or lost via press release.  I do think the law firm representing Lou is solid and knows their stuff.   That doesn’t mean they have a strong case, but they will present it well.  

[Frobby]

15 minutes ago, Going Underground said:

I think he wanted to be an equal partner. He alleges that John pushed him out and manipulated his mom and John surrounded himself with yes men.

He did say he wanted to be an equal partner, but (1) MLB only allows each team to designate one person with sole authority to make decisions for the team, and (2) even his complaint didn’t claim he should have been co-CEO or co-Chair of the team.   

[Going Underground]

8 minutes ago, Frobby said:

He did say he wanted to be an equal partner, but (1) MLB only allows each team to designate one person with sole authority to make decisions for the team, and (2) even his complaint didn’t claim he should have been co-CEO or co-Chair of the team.   

So where does it go from here? Judge can throw out the complaint due to lack of a case? Think in the complaint it says that want a jury trail. Wonder how quickly this case if any will proceed? 

[Frobby]

15 minutes ago, Going Underground said:

So where does it go from here? Judge can throw out the complaint due to lack of a case? Think in the complaint it says that want a jury trail. Wonder how quickly this case if any will proceed? 

As I mentioned in an earlier post, the complaint seeks (among other things) to have the court enter a preliminary injunction before the full merits of the case are heard.   But to back that up, Lou would need to file a separate motion seeking the preliminary injunction.   Those types of motions can be heard pretty quickly (in a few weeks or months).   But the fact that Lou hasn’t filed a motion tells me that the request in the complaint may not be serious, just window dressing.  

Otherwise, the Maryland courts move pretty slowly.   There’s a procedure at the outset where John and Georgia can ask the court to dismiss the case on the papers without evidence — such a motion can only be granted if (1) the facts, even if proven, wouldn’t establish a claim, or (2) the facts alleged are so implausible that the court wouldn’t need evidence to disregard them.   It’s pretty standard for a defendant to file a motion to dismiss, but they aren’t granted very often.   The court can take a long time to rule on such motions and nothing else happens while such a motion is pending (which often  is why defendants file them even if they don’t think the motion is likely to be granted).   

If no motion to dismiss is granted, the case then enters the discovery phase where each side can demand relevant documents from the other side and third parties and take depositions of the other side’s witnesses or third parties.  That’s usually time consuming and would probably take a year or more in a case like this.  Once that’s over, the case gets scheduled for trial, though each side can move for summary judgment and say no trial is necessary because undisputed facts established after discovery show that they win.  Those motions also can take a long time to decide.  

Bottom line, every case is a little different but I wouldn’t expect a full trial for 2-3 years, if one ever happens.  

 

[Aristotelian]

1 hour ago, Frobby said:

Of course he’s authorized to speak for the Orioles.    He’s chairman and CEO and MLB has recognized him as the sole authority to speak for the team, as MLB’s rules require.   So far as I recall, Lou doesn’t allege that John was illegitimately named to those positions.   

The complaint says that John and the lawyer prepared documents to give him full control, then tricked Georgia and pressured Lou into signing them (pp. 35-38 or so). Then wants the court to enjoin them from representing the Orioles in negotiations. I can see why she would want to reaffirm that Peter appointed her and she appointed John (and also has confidence in Jones). 

[Going Underground]

17 minutes ago, Frobby said:

As I mentioned in an earlier post, the complaint seeks (among other things) to have the court enter a preliminary injunction before the full merits of the case are heard.   But to back that up, Lou would need to file a separate motion seeking the preliminary injunction.   Those types of motions can be heard pretty quickly (in a few weeks or months).   But the fact that Lou hasn’t filed a motion tells me that the request in the complaint may not be serious, just window dressing.  

Otherwise, the Maryland courts move pretty slowly.   There’s a procedure at the outset where John and Georgia can ask the court to dismiss the case on the papers without evidence — such a motion can only be granted if (1) the facts, even if proven, wouldn’t establish a claim, or (2) the facts alleged are so implausible that the court wouldn’t need evidence to disregard them.   It’s pretty standard for a defendant to file a motion to dismiss, but they aren’t granted very often.   The court can take a long time to rule on such motions and nothing else happens while such a motion is pending (which often  is why defendants file them even if they don’t think the motion is likely to be granted).   

If no motion to dismiss is granted, the case then enters the discovery phase where each side can demand relevant documents from the other side and third parties and take depositions of the other side’s witnesses or third parties.  That’s usually time consuming and would probably take a year or more in a case like this.  Once that’s over, the case gets scheduled for trial, though each side can move for summary judgment and say no trial is necessary because undisputed facts established after discovery show that they win.  Those motions also can take a long time to decide.  

Bottom line, every case is a little different but I wouldn’t expect a full trial for 2-3 years, if one ever happens.  

 

That 2-3 years would extend beyond the years of the current lease which expires next year. MSA said they are going forward with lease negotiations with John. Be an interesting next year.

[spiritof66]

2 hours ago, wildcard said:

 

I am glad Georgia cleared the air.   Before she did it sounded like a dispute between John and Louis.   But Georgia says she is the controlling Trustee and appointed John as Chairman and CEO.   She further said he has bunch of estate planners backing her up.

In view of what the Ilitchs have done with the Tigers I doubt the Estate Taxes  are a problem for the Angelos Trust ownership once Peter passes. 

Here is an article on the Ilitch's use of a Trust to avoid estate taxes.

https://ncestateplanning.com/trusts-and-tigers-are-good-together/

I don't think that's going to help the Angeloses reduce their taxes very much, if at all. A trust can reduce taxes in the following way. If you own high-value assets and gift them to a trust, you pay a federal gift tax on the fair market value at the time of the transfer. The federal gift tax and estate tax rates are the same -- really just two different names for the same tax, the difference based on whether the transfer is made  while the giver is alive or by his estate after he's died.

So far, sports teams have constantly appreciated in value. So let's say Peter Angelos paid $140 million for his majority interest in the Orioles in 1993, and that share has a fair market value of $1.1 billion when he dies. Subject to a couple of minor wrinkles, his estate would owe estate taxes of 40 percent of $1.1 billion. Now suppose Peter Angelos transferred his interest in the Orioles to a trust (or to his wife or his sons or anybody else) in 2010, when that interest had an (assumed) fair market value of $600 million. Angelos would owe federal gift taxes, also at 40 percent, on only $600 million. The interest in the Orioles would be out of his estate and not subject to estate tax. So in the case of an appreciating asset, the federal estate/gift tax is smaller because the post-transfer appreciation escapes that tax, but it also has to be paid earlier.

I haven't tried to assess the effect of a lifetime transfer on Maryland taxes.

I don't see how a transfer to a trust in 2018 or later could be very helpful to Peter Angelos's tax burden. 

(There are complex rules as to the elements of a trust that are required to get an asset out of an estate. I've forgotten whatever I knew about those rules, and it would be out of date anywhere.)

[Going Underground]

22 minutes ago, spiritof66 said:

I don't think that's going to help the Angeloses reduce their taxes very much, if at all. A trust can reduce taxes in the following way. If you own high-value assets and gift them to a trust, you pay a federal gift tax on the fair market value at the time of the transfer. The federal gift tax and estate tax rates are the same -- really just two different names for the same tax, the difference based on whether the transfer is made  while the giver is alive or by his estate after he's died.

So far, sports teams have constantly appreciated in value. So let's say Peter Angelos paid $140 million for his majority interest in the Orioles in 1993, and that share has a fair market value of $1.1 billion when he dies. Subject to a couple of minor wrinkles, his estate would owe estate taxes of 40 percent of $1.1 billion. Now suppose Peter Angelos transferred his interest in the Orioles to a trust (or to his wife or his sons or anybody else) in 2010, when that interest had an (assumed) fair market value of $600 million. Angelos would owe federal gift taxes, also at 40 percent, on only $600 million. The interest in the Orioles would be out of his estate and not subject to estate tax. So in the case of an appreciating asset, the federal estate/gift tax is smaller because the post-transfer appreciation escapes that tax, but it also has to be paid earlier.

I haven't tried to assess the effect of a lifetime transfer on Maryland taxes.

I don't see how a transfer to a trust in 2018 or later could be very helpful to Peter Angelos's tax burden. 

(There are complex rules as to the elements of a trust that are required to get an asset out of an estate. I've forgotten whatever I knew about those rules, and it would be out of date anywhere.)

Maryland estate tax is 16% over $ 10  4 million In 2021 had an exemption for $5  million.  Also $ 40,000  is also exempted 

[spiritof66]

5 minutes ago, Going Underground said:

Maryland estate tax is 16% over $ 10  4 million In 2021 had an exemption for $5  million.  Also $ 40,000  is also exempted 

It looks to me like the transfer to a trust enables you to avoid the MD estate and inheritance taxes, but I easily could be wrong.

[OriolesMagic83]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MneA9pgLVw

My advice to Lou: take the money and run.

[Camden_yardbird]

13 hours ago, Frobby said:

As I mentioned in an earlier post, the complaint seeks (among other things) to have the court enter a preliminary injunction before the full merits of the case are heard.   But to back that up, Lou would need to file a separate motion seeking the preliminary injunction.   Those types of motions can be heard pretty quickly (in a few weeks or months).   But the fact that Lou hasn’t filed a motion tells me that the request in the complaint may not be serious, just window dressing.  

Otherwise, the Maryland courts move pretty slowly.   There’s a procedure at the outset where John and Georgia can ask the court to dismiss the case on the papers without evidence — such a motion can only be granted if (1) the facts, even if proven, wouldn’t establish a claim, or (2) the facts alleged are so implausible that the court wouldn’t need evidence to disregard them.   It’s pretty standard for a defendant to file a motion to dismiss, but they aren’t granted very often.   The court can take a long time to rule on such motions and nothing else happens while such a motion is pending (which often  is why defendants file them even if they don’t think the motion is likely to be granted).   

If no motion to dismiss is granted, the case then enters the discovery phase where each side can demand relevant documents from the other side and third parties and take depositions of the other side’s witnesses or third parties.  That’s usually time consuming and would probably take a year or more in a case like this.  Once that’s over, the case gets scheduled for trial, though each side can move for summary judgment and say no trial is necessary because undisputed facts established after discovery show that they win.  Those motions also can take a long time to decide.  

Bottom line, every case is a little different but I wouldn’t expect a full trial for 2-3 years, if one ever 

Man I just had CivPro flashbacks.  What would that injunction even stop from happening.  If it froze Johns control over team decisions it would even further restrict the Orioles to operate in a sport that has multiple decision points for ownership per year.  You would think MLB might step in somehow if that happened. 

This lawsuit screams like its looking for a settlement.  It looks like John wrested control of the team and then also went after the assets of the law firm.  I could easily see where a settlement was reached to provide Louis the law firm assets and some amount of non-controlling equity in the team.

The unfortunate side effect of this whole thing of course is there is no way Baltimore is getting an allstar game, or even consideration, with an ownership fight going on.

[Aristotelian]

3 minutes ago, Camden_yardbird said:

This lawsuit screams like its looking for a settlement.  It looks like John wrested control of the team and then also went after the assets of the law firm.  I could easily see where a settlement was reached to provide Louis the law firm assets and some amount of non-controlling equity in the team.

Agreed, it appears what triggered the lawsuit was the threat that he would be completely cut out of the inheritance. 

[foxfield]

I think....or believe, that MLB will not allow any Angelos to own the Orioles after the death of PA.  That said, I believe, that unless the team was gifted to a trust as Spiritof66 noted above, that MLB is not going to force sale.  Doing so would impose a capital gain tax and still leave the asset open to estate taxes.  I believe the Angelos family can hold off the MLB until PA is deceased.

That said, I cannot imagine that MLB would work with Angelos to move team from Baltimore.  

The cynic in me thinks this entire ordeal is a smokescreen to secure the best deal from Maryland.  So that the new lease can be presented as a "once again, the Angelos family saves the Orioles for Baltimore.!"