07/26/22 Roster Moves: Terrin Vavra is called up from Norfolk (MLB debut) and Arauz to the IL

[spleen1015]

If Hyde was worried about putting the best team on the field, Adley would have played yesterday against the Rays and sat Sunday against the Reds.

[RZNJ]

25 minutes ago, spleen1015 said:

If Hyde was worried about putting the best team on the field, Adley would have played yesterday against the Rays and sat Sunday against the Reds.

Well, we took 3 of 4 from TB and almost took the fourth so he's doing a lousy job of trying to lose.

[Frobby]

31 minutes ago, spleen1015 said:

If Hyde was worried about putting the best team on the field, Adley would have played yesterday against the Rays and sat Sunday against the Reds.

Adley wasn’t going to catch a day game after a night game.  He could have DH’d, I guess.  

Hyde sure is getting a lot of grief here for his lineup decisions from a series where we won three out of four against a team ahead of us in the standings.  
 

[sportsfan8703]

If Vavra were RH it would fit our needs better right now. 

[Tony-OH]

12 hours ago, ChuckS said:

Really disheartening if this is how our non-Adley/Gunnar type prospects are going to be handled going forward. 

The only clarifying point I'd like to make here is Vavra is a not an Adley/Henderson type of prospect. Those guys are impact, everyday prospects while Vavra is probably more of a potential every day regular at 2B, or possibly a 4th outfielder type. It seems to me that they don't think Vavra's defense at 2B is good enough to play there every day.

They could be right since I'll admit I've not watch every game at Norfolk to see how his defense is. When I have seen him I do get the feeling he's adequate at best defensive 2B. In my mind, if the team really thought he was the 2B of the future, he would have been playing there a lot more in AAA instead of CF. 

Now, we are 100% on the same page that I think he should be playing over Odor who is a below average player in every metric that we can find. It would be nice to see if Vavra's bat will play at the major league level and why not do that when he plays the position of the worse player in the regular starting lineup.

Regardless, if the Orioles were planning on just sitting him on the bench, why not call up Martin? Martin is a bench guy at best so why not bring him up when Arauz went down? Just a bit of a headscratcher for me. 

Saying all that, the Orioles ended up winning 3 or 4 from the Rays while all this went down, so I guess it really didn't matter more than just giving us something to discuss.

[RZNJ]

I do agree that calling Vavra up is a head scratcher.   Martin made more sense for a utility/bench/PR role.

I would love to know the thinking behind it.

This one is out there.  Just spitballing as they say.  Could it have to do with health insurance?  His wife is expecting.  Do you qualify for ML health benefits if you're on the 40 man roster?  Do you need a certain amount of days in the bigs.  Just grasping here because the move makes no sense if he doesn't start.

[ChuckS]

43 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

The only clarifying point I'd like to make here is Vavra is a not an Adley/Henderson type of prospect. Those guys are impact, everyday prospects while Vavra is probably more of a potential every day regular at 2B, or possibly a 4th outfielder type. It seems to me that they don't think Vavra's defense at 2B is good enough to play there every day.

They could be right since I'll admit I've not watch every game at Norfolk to see how his defense is. When I have seen him I do get the feeling he's adequate at best defensive 2B. In my mind, if the team really thought he was the 2B of the future, he would have been playing there a lot more in AAA instead of CF. 

Now, we are 100% on the same page that I think he should be playing over Odor who is a below average player in every metric that we can find. It would be nice to see if Vavra's bat will play at the major league level and why not do that when he plays the position of the worse player in the regular starting lineup.

Regardless, if the Orioles were planning on just sitting him on the bench, why not call up Martin? Martin is a bench guy at best so why not bring him up when Arauz went down? Just a bit of a headscratcher for me. 

Saying all that, the Orioles ended up winning 3 or 4 from the Rays while all this went down, so I guess it really didn't matter more than just giving us something to discuss.

My concern is that your Westburg and Stowers types could receive similar treatment.  We already kind of saw it with Stowers although it was a very small sample size. It's difficult enough for these guys to adjust to major league pitching when they are getting everyday at bats but when they have to prove themselves worthy of everyday at bats from a reserve role, it makes it that much more difficult. 

On Vavra, if he's not worthy of getting a long look when the only player in front of him is a guy hitting .197 it's tough to imagine him ever getting it since the IF and OF situation is likely to become more crowded in 2023 and beyond. 

[RZNJ]

These prospects are Elias' bread and butter.  He wants to see the fruits of his labors.  He also knows the atmosphere of a tight knit clubhouse on a somewhat surprising, Cinderella team, can have a delicate balance.  If this team was 15 games under .500 we would have seen changes already.  It's not a plug and play situation.  First, let's see if Mancini goes.  That's no sure thing either.

[ScGO's]

At this point, if the O's want to maximize their lineup for a playoff run, they need to replace Odor.  Whether that means Vavra gets a chance, or you move Urias to 2B and fill 3B with Westburg/Henderson or someone else who can give you a chance at better production than Odor.

Right now we have 7 spots in the lineup with OPS+ over 100. Mateo needs to stay as hes a positive WAR player, but if we can replace Odor with someone who can be near or above the OPS+ of 100, this line up will be stacked.  I really want to see Vavra get some starts so I can get a look at how his OBP tools plays at the MLB level

[jamalshw]

1 hour ago, ScGO's said:

At this point, if the O's want to maximize their lineup for a playoff run, they need to replace Odor.  Whether that means Vavra gets a chance, or you move Urias to 2B and fill 3B with Westburg/Henderson or someone else who can give you a chance at better production than Odor.

Right now we have 7 spots in the lineup with OPS+ over 100. Mateo needs to stay as hes a positive WAR player, but if we can replace Odor with someone who can be near or above the OPS+ of 100, this line up will be stacked.  I really want to see Vavra get some starts so I can get a look at how his OBP tools plays at the MLB level

I'm not sure it'll be stacked, but it'll be deep. While you have several players with an OPS+ over 100, they don't have any over 120. It's a collection of above average bats. Now there's room for growth for a few of them take the step beyond "above average" (Adley being primary).

To your main point, however, I agree I want to see Vavra get some starts at 2B and see what he can produce. I also understand the prevailing idea may be he's more of a utility player (4th OF with the versatility to start at 2B), but lets see him get some ABs and playing time to really make the judgement before the likes of Henderson, Westburg and Stowers makes the ABs even harder to find. 

[interloper]

1 hour ago, RZNJ said:

These prospects are Elias' bread and butter.  He wants to see the fruits of his labors.  He also knows the atmosphere of a tight knit clubhouse on a somewhat surprising, Cinderella team, can have a delicate balance.  If this team was 15 games under .500 we would have seen changes already.  It's not a plug and play situation.  First, let's see if Mancini goes.  That's no sure thing either.

Yeah, things seem to be in a holding pattern until either the roster loosens up from trades, more injuries occur, or the team goes into freefall. Any are just about as likely as the other, so we will see. Guys will get their chance. I am taking deep breaths... lol. 

[interloper]

2 hours ago, ChuckS said:

My concern is that your Westburg and Stowers types could receive similar treatment.  We already kind of saw it with Stowers although it was a very small sample size. It's difficult enough for these guys to adjust to major league pitching when they are getting everyday at bats but when they have to prove themselves worthy of everyday at bats from a reserve role, it makes it that much more difficult. 

On Vavra, if he's not worthy of getting a long look when the only player in front of him is a guy hitting .197 it's tough to imagine him ever getting it since the IF and OF situation is likely to become more crowded in 2023 and beyond. 

I don't think we have to worry about this for Henderson. I think he's an Adley type - in other words, they will clear room for him and make him an everyday guy without hesitation. Westburg and Stowers are not quite the level of Henderson, but they're certainly more impact guys than Vavra. I think those guys will get their shot once there's more roster attrition. Henderson is a guy that once they feel he's 100% ready, he's coming up and playing 3B and then you have to make a decision about Odor because Urias has to play somewhere. 

[Tony-OH]

3 hours ago, ChuckS said:

My concern is that your Westburg and Stowers types could receive similar treatment.  We already kind of saw it with Stowers although it was a very small sample size. It's difficult enough for these guys to adjust to major league pitching when they are getting everyday at bats but when they have to prove themselves worthy of everyday at bats from a reserve role, it makes it that much more difficult. 

On Vavra, if he's not worthy of getting a long look when the only player in front of him is a guy hitting .197 it's tough to imagine him ever getting it since the IF and OF situation is likely to become more crowded in 2023 and beyond. 

I'm in the wait and see mode. I agree with you about Vavra over Odor, but the Rays did throw two left-handers out of the three gams he's been up so really we are talking one game where i thought he definitely should have started.

As for Stowers, would I have liked to see him get starts over McKenna, yes, yes I would, but I don't think you  can draw conclusions about how he was used.

I like Vavra's bat but his defense is not a plus anywhere so it puts a lot of pressure on the bat to play in the majors. I've seen him get beat on good fastballs up and in so that might be something he needs to close up but I'd still like to see how his bat plays against MLB pitching instead of Odor.

[Tony-OH]

1 hour ago, interloper said:

I don't think we have to worry about this for Henderson. I think he's an Adley type - in other words, they will clear room for him and make him an everyday guy without hesitation. Westburg and Stowers are not quite the level of Henderson, but they're certainly more impact guys than Vavra. I think those guys will get their shot once there's more roster attrition. Henderson is a guy that once they feel he's 100% ready, he's coming up and playing 3B and then you have to make a decision about Odor because Urias has to play somewhere. 

Agreed, there is no doubt Henderson is going to get the Adley treatment and play everyday once he's considered ready. 

[Orioles0615]

bench again....