Time for Nevin and Odor to go

[Brooks The Great]

As the O's make their moves before the trade deadline today, I'm compelled to point out that the only things frustrating me about the Orioles this season (a gratifying season featuring the team performing above everyone's expectations, a very nice draft, and nice trades and waiver wire pickups during the offseason and regular season) are the presence of Nevin and Odor on the major league roster. Both players are abysmal, and have no business taking up a roster spot. Much less, in Odor's case, batting 5th in a major league game for a competitive team and getting regular starts.

I don't need to do a statistical deep dive into either player - the production and stats are easy to see. AVG, OPS, OPS+, WAR - they all reflect some of the worst production in the majors this season. We have a talented player in Terrin Vavra who'd quite likely be a considerable upgrade to Odor at 2B, and even if not, would be worth evaluating and developing at the major league level.

I know I'll get some comments about Odor's "leadership" and "clubhouse presence" and "clutch hits", but none of that matters to me. Production and talent does.

Once the trade deadline clears up which other major league players get moved, I'd love to see Mike Elias pivot to focusing on promoting players like Stowers, Hall, Westburg, and Henderson - probably in that order - to the majors to make a Wild Card push and also get valuable reps which will help each individual player have a better chance to make a positive impact for next year and beyond. Which makes the Orioles a more competitive team in the long run.

I'm not sure if Odor continuing to start and batting absurdly high in the lineup recently is more Hyde's call or Elias's, but if it's Hyde's call, I hope Elias has a Billy Beane-in-Moneyball moment and takes the choice out of Hyde's hands by DFA'ing Odor soon. It's well past time to jettison these two scrubs and focus even more on winning games and making the playoffs this season.

Edited August 2, 2022 by Brooks The Great

[interloper]

Yeah man, especially Odor. I really do appreciate what he's brought to the clubhouse, but it's time to make room for... basically anybody. Martin is a better choice, even. 

Nevin I agree although I think he's basically the backup 1B at the moment. Not that that should secure him a spot on this roster at all. I would sooner try Bannon over there. 

Also - I'd like to add Chirinos to this list. Nottingham has played some 1B in AAA, so you could kill two birds with one stone and have a better backup catcher and reserve 1B. 

Edited August 2, 2022 by interloper

[oriole]

It’s pretty obvious that Hyde doesn’t view Vavra as a major league 2B. So that pushes him into a crowded OF battle and maybe DH if he gets a chance to prove he can hit major league pitching. 

[osravensfan78]

They keep saying Odor is good for team moral, but why can’t they just leave him on the bench and start someone else. I hate seeing him get 5 ABs every game. I don’t get it. 

[interloper]

I'm holding onto this far-fetched hope that Elias actually finds a trade partner for Odor. For cash or a PTBNL or something. Someone who wants a bench lefty bat for peanuts? It's not likely.

[Brooks The Great]

4 minutes ago, interloper said:

Yeah man, especially Odor. I really do appreciate what he's brought to the clubhouse, but it's time to make room for... basically anybody. Martin is a better choice, even. 

Nevin I agree although I think he's basically the backup 1B at the moment. Not that that should secure him a spot on this roster at all. I would sooner try Bannon over there. 

Also - I'd like to add Chirinos to this list. Nottingham has played some 1B in AAA, so you could kill two birds with one stone and have a better backup catcher and reserve 1B. 

Agreed on Chirinos, and that Nottingham deserves a shot. Believe it or not, I think Maverick Handley would also be more productive than Chirinos. Right now. It's not a high bar to clear to be more productive than Chirinos, but given Handley is such a good defensive catcher and made some progress with the bat this season, I wouldn't mind being aggressive with him.

[Sports Guy]

That time was a long time ago.  
 

People talk about punting the season because we traded Mancini.  That’s not true but playing these guys is.

Everyone should be up.  

[Brooks The Great]

3 minutes ago, interloper said:

I'm holding onto this far-fetched hope that Elias actually finds a trade partner for Odor. For cash or a PTBNL or something. Someone who wants a bench lefty bat for peanuts? It's not likely.

It's just not going to happen. Odor is awful. And everyone can see it. Except for Brandon Hyde, apparently.

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

9 minutes ago, oriole said:

It’s pretty obvious that Hyde doesn’t view Vavra as a major league 2B. So that pushes him into a crowded OF battle and maybe DH if he gets a chance to prove he can hit major league pitching. 

I don't think the decision on Vavra being an MLB 2B or not is up to Hyde. Elias will let Hyde know where Vavra needs to play on the team and if Elias thinks Vavra can play 2B, then Vavra will get a chance to prove himself. 

[O-The-Memories]

I would also be a lot happier if we could trim the roster of the following; Nevin, Odor, Chirinos, Sulser, and probably Voth. The pitchers are harder to justify but I'd like to evaluate some other guys too. The first three for sure though. Chirinos was a good gamble that just didn't pay off, and I didn't see that massive of a decline coming. Odor should have never been signed in the first place. 

[forphase1]

28 minutes ago, Brooks The Great said:

As the O's make their moves before the trade deadline today, I'm compelled to point out that the only things frustrating me about the Orioles this season (a gratifying season featuring the team performing above everyone's expectations, a very nice draft, and nice trades and waiver wire pickups during the offseason and regular season) are the presence of Nevin and Odor on the major league roster. Both players are abysmal, and have no business taking up a roster spot. Much less, in Odor's case, batting 5th in a major league game for a competitive team and getting regular starts.

I don't need to do a statistical deep dive into either player - the production and stats are easy to see. AVG, OPS, OPS+, WAR - they all reflect some of the worst production in the majors this season. We have a talented player in Terrin Vavra who'd quite likely be a considerable upgrade to Odor at 2B, and even if not, would be worth evaluating and developing at the major league level.

I know I'll get some comments about Odor's "leadership" and "clubhouse presence" and "clutch hits", but none of that matters to me. Production and talent does.

Once the trade deadline clears up which other major league players get moved, I'd love to see Mike Elias pivot to focusing on promoting players like Stowers, Hall, Westburg, and Henderson - probably in that order - to the majors to make a Wild Card push and also get valuable reps which will help each individual player have a better chance to make a positive impact for next year and beyond. Which makes the Orioles a more competitive team in the long run.

I'm not sure if Odor continuing to start and batting absurdly high in the lineup recently is more Hyde's call or Elias's, but if it's Hyde's call, I hope Elias has a Billy Beane-in-Moneyball moment and takes the choice out of Hyde's hands by DFA'ing Odor soon. It's well past time to jettison these two scrubs and focus even more on winning games and making the playoffs this season.

I agree with all of this.  Odor should have been jettisoned a long time ago, and it's certainly beyond argument that he shouldn't be getting 4-5 at bats a game and certainly not batting 5th!  The whole left right left lineup is not significant enough to have someone that poor with the bat that high in the order.  I like Hyde and felt he deserves a chance with some better talent, but his use of Odor and Nevin lately have had me questioning his managing ability.  

[Sanfran327]

27 minutes ago, Brooks The Great said:

Once the trade deadline clears up which other major league players get moved, I'd love to see Mike Elias pivot to focusing on promoting players like Stowers, Hall, Westburg, and Henderson - probably in that order - to the majors to make a Wild Card push and also get valuable reps which will help each individual player have a better chance to make a positive impact for next year and beyond. Which makes the Orioles a more competitive team in the long run.

I think it's critical to get these guys up this year and let them get a taste of meaningful, competitive baseball straight out of the gate. Often times, players that are promoted to rebuilding teams only get garbage-time experience. We're in the WC race without a doubt. I'd much rather swing and miss at the WC with an infield featuring Henderson, Urias, Mateo, Vavra, Westburg, and Mountcastle than one unrealistically relying on Nevin or Odor to make a contribution.

[yark14]

4 minutes ago, O-The-Memories said:

I would also be a lot happier if we could trim the roster of the following; Nevin, Odor, Chirinos, Sulser, and probably Voth. The pitchers are harder to justify but I'd like to evaluate some other guys too. The first three for sure though. Chirinos was a good gamble that just didn't pay off, and I didn't see that massive of a decline coming. Odor should have never been signed in the first place. 

Voth?  He has a 2.84 ERA since we acquired him.  Especially with Wells out for who knows how long, Voth has been a really nice player for us.

[Mooreisbetter27]

9 minutes ago, O-The-Memories said:

I would also be a lot happier if we could trim the roster of the following; Nevin, Odor, Chirinos, Sulser, and probably Voth. The pitchers are harder to justify but I'd like to evaluate some other guys too. The first three for sure though. Chirinos was a good gamble that just didn't pay off, and I didn't see that massive of a decline coming. Odor should have never been signed in the first place. 

The same Austin Voth with a 2.84 ERA and 3.34 FIP?  Odd choice.  Who exactly are you replacing him with?

Edit: Yark beat me to it.  

Edited August 2, 2022 by Mooreisbetter27

[O-The-Memories]

Voth is the guy that I was a little unsure of,  I think his previous track record is more likely to show his true talent, and at 30 years old he isn't going to develop a lot more. I do think that you guys are correct in the fact that there probably aren't a lot of guys who they could call up. I doubt a guy like Hall is coming up to replace him.