Cubs trade DeRosa to Indians; Does this mean Pie for Olson back on??

[Fairfax Bird]

MacPhail in fact stated after Tex that the Rays were the model for a team to contend without spending loads of money.

He also offered Tex $140 million.

[Hank Scorpio]

There are others out there aside of Shealy who we could theoretically target... but I think there are many on this board that assume "blocked" players can be had with ease when that is rarely the case.

[bigbird]

Really, I thought if we forfeited all of our draft picks and canceled spring training that would push us over the top. Same argument, different day. AM is doing things, just not the things you like, and quite frankly not the things I would like either. Difference between you and I is that you are being help captive against your will and I choose to watch college basketball while AM makes changes during the 2nd half of the off-season.

Just tell me what he's done the past 11 months to make us better and upgrade the talent level and all will be good.

[Hank Scorpio]

He also offered Tex $140 million.

He certainly did. I'm just stating a fact, that's all.

[Mackus]

Just tell me what he's done the past 11 months to make us better and upgrade the talent level and all will be good.

What hasn't he done that he should have done?

We all agree that not enough has been done to help set us up for the future. We need more moves. But what pieces didn't he acquire that we now no longer can go after? Why are you so convinced that he is not looking to make the moves that need to be done?

[Lucky Jim]

Ah, two different points - thank you. Nevertheless, because I have the utmost time admitting that I'm ever wrong, I think your analysis of the number of wins such signings he advocated for would bring is considerably off. I agree with you, which I think is your main point, that there are other ways to make a winning team, and that a winning team is what brings the fans in. Johnny's main point was to make moves that substantially improve the team. What he offered was one method - one you don't like, which is totally valid. So, yes, winning does improve attendance, which was his main point, but, there are multiple ways to win, and singing big name Free Agents alone does not bring sustained increases in attendance unless accompanied by winning.

Thanks, for helping me out above.

I hope you didn't read that tone as being seriously arch, so much as self-parodying.

Johnny apparently thinks I'm a Kool-Aid drinker, so I've got enough problems on my hands.

I think signing multiple FAs would've led to a likely attendance push down the line. But I don't think signing multiple FAs was possible - especially once Burnett signed. And signing Burnett for more than 5/80 would be idiotic.

Teix alone is estimated at 5 WAR. See here: Link..

Don't think the others come close. For instance, Sheets is estimated at about 3 WAR. See: Link. Or less: Link.

Dunn - who has no (or negative) defensive value, comes in at less than 3 WAR. See: Link.

I mean, these could be wrong. Could undervalue. May suffer some fatal conceptual flaw. But there's nothing I've seen that suggests any one of these guys would've helped a ton. Now, if we signed all three? Well, we'd be something like 11 wins better. I guess a .500 team would bring more fans to the ballpark.

Is $46m or so per year, or $270m a reasonable price for a .500 club? How many more fans would we need to cover those expenses?

[bigbird]

Ryan Shealy, this is your brilliant move. He can't win a job with the Royals for crying out loud.

I would rather have Ryan Shealy playing 1B on this team than Millar, Sexson or Hinske.

[mweb]

Some here expect 12-15 guys on the roster to be home grown. Has that been done?

Well the Phillies had 6 of their 8 starting position players and 3 out of their 5 starting pitchers in that category, so out of the important players, most were home grown. After that, just two relievers. So they barely miss out on getting to 12 because their bench oddly enough doesn't have any homegrown guys and their pen has less than normal. However, the main reason they won was due to home grown players(Utley, Howard, Rollins, Burrell, Hamels, Myers, Victorino).

[Lucky Jim]

There is so much that is awesome about this post. I doubt seriously that Johnny is in significantly different from the others, whom you probably wouldn't be so curt with, who use that term. I personally don't, but only because I think it's silly.

Interesting way to convey your point and strengthen your argument. I disagree with much of what you've been posting lately. I guess I'll be joining a cult soon and killing myself. Yippee!

No difference between Johnny and anyone else about the use of the term. I think it's derisive and ridiculous.

I'm not going to tell anyone they shouldn't use it, but if you're going to use it...shouldn't it be used accurately?

I'm not sure why you're all over me here, and frankly, I can't separate when you're being sarcastic from when you're not. I'm not even sure what "point" you're alluding to.

I'm just responding to his insult. On his terms. That seems pretty fair to me.

[bigbird]

Denny Bautista for Jason Grimsley. When we traded a prospect, which is what you want to do now?:scratchchinhmm:

Would you trade Hayden Penn for Ryan Garko right now???

[Mackus]

I would rather have Ryan Shealy playing 1B on this team than Millar, Sexson or Hinske.

Would you rather have just Shealy or Sexson and David Hernandez?

Shealy maybe has an outside chance of being a productive player in 3-4 years, but really, he doesn't really help the team long term. He's had over 500 MLB at bats, and while he's had some decent stretches, overall he's been well below average for a 1B.

If the price for Shealy is cheap, he'd be a nice target, but I think it'd be a counter-productive move to trade one of our good SP prospects for him. No chance do I move someone like Hernadez, Bergesen, Berken, Erbe, Patton, or Olson for him. At 29 years old, he's pretty much at his peak now.

[Mackus]

Would you trade Hayden Penn for Ryan Garko right now???

That's a move I'd make, I don't think Penn gets Garko though, or Shealy for that matter. Garko is a much better target than Shealy though, at this point.

[Birds08]

Not to return to the topic of the thread, but has there been any indication whatsoever that the Pie for Olson may actually be revived?

[Mackus]

Not to return to the topic of the thread, but has there been any indication whatsoever that the Pie for Olson may actually be revived?

Nothing other than speculation.

If a Cubs-Padres deal heats up again though, which is what the implication is with them moving DeRosa and Marquis, it seems likely that the deal might be revisited.

[Big Mac]

Would you trade Hayden Penn for Ryan Garko right now???

No I would not.

We don't need Garko, he is an average 1st baseman. We have Huff, he is better. Stick Scott at Dh and Reimold LF.

We seem to be so intent on making moves to keep Reimold off the team, I'm starting to think he slept with McPhail's wife or something.