"Moves that completely befuddle us" 2022-23 offseason edition

[RZNJ]

All I can say is. Poor Tony!

[SilverRocket]

I'm imagining maybe they want to put these players on an offseason regimen and battle for a backup spot. The 40-man roster is just a way to get them into the system and there's otherwise no downside to using these spots right now.

[mlrhode]

32 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

All I can say is. Poor Tony!

[foxfield]

On 10/12/2022 at 5:54 PM, Tony-OH said:

So you aren't the least bit interested in why a professional GM would add 30 plus year players onto his 40-man roster for what seems like no real reason to make his organization better? 

He could sign a Eddie Gaedel's ghost and you'd be like, eh, who cares, right? 

No, these players don't matter. What matters is that the GM is making moves that make zero sense.

1)  In October?  No not at all.  Like you, I don't see the reason, but that doesn't mean there isn't one...even a good one.  But unless they are here in Nov, I fail to see why it even registers unless you think the person they exchanged wasn't expendable. Then I would be more concerned.  

2)  The Orioles have never signed a ghost, although the Tillman resigning was pretty close.  But if they did, I think people would care.

3)  I do hope that whatever the reasons are...we get insight to them, but I do not expect that we will.  If every move GM's made were clear, what it the world would we have to complain about?

Edited October 14, 2022 by foxfield

[Legend_Of_Joey]

1 hour ago, Can_of_corn said:

So the baseball equivalent of getting Baltic and Mediterranean avenue?

Nah, Electric Company and Water Works.

Bold strategy by the Reds, getting rid of all of their catchers.

[Jammer7]

16 hours ago, SilverRocket said:

I'm imagining maybe they want to put these players on an offseason regimen and battle for a backup spot. The 40-man roster is just a way to get them into the system and there's otherwise no downside to using these spots right now.

 

15 hours ago, foxfield said:

1)  In October?  No not at all.  Like you, I don't see the reason, but that doesn't mean there isn't one...even a good one.  But unless they are here in Nov, I fail to see why it even registers unless you think the person they exchanged wasn't expendable. Then I would be more concerned.  

This is where I am. I do not know why these moves were made. There has to be some reason, and I don’t know it. I do think Aramis Garcia and Jake Cave have some limited upside. Yes, they will both be 30 soon. Maybe this gives the team’s coaches an opportunity to meet with them, evaluate in person, perhaps send them to a Driveline type environment to see what they can improve on. They have a little over a month to evaluate them fully. 

We’ll see if any of these moves stick, and  I doubt it. Elias is no fool. He saw an opportunity to look at some guys they might like to play a limited role. So be it. 

[Tony-OH]

You guys crack me up with "The orioles want to take a look" at journeyman AAA catchers by putting them on the 40-man."

I get it, many of you are so happy after a great season that Elias can now do no wrong. He can make ridiculous moves and people will just be like, eh, he's a genius so of course this must be right. I mean, what team doesn't have 3 journeyman catchers including a 33 year old who was a back up catcher in AAA on their 40-man roster?

Look, I agree with those that say ultimately none of this matters right now and the guys they are removing are guys that can be easily found again, but I'm not going to just accept that this makes sense because Elias is doing it.

But hey, why should we challenge a GM that played Odor and Aguilar down the stretch while his team was still in contention for a wild car spot? Elias is clearly infallible here to some and I get it after the nice year, but the historic losing was under Elias as well.

I will leave you guys with this, while this really doesn't stop the team from doing anything and any of these spare part catchers can be jettisoned at will, I question the analytical evaluations of a team that believes protecting a 33-year old back up AAA catcher is so valuable that they see a need to protect him on the 40-man.

Considering this team felt Aguilar would help down the stretch despite being terrible all year with Miami, and their analysis that Odor was the best player to play a bunch during a stretch run, make me question this organization when it comes to evaluating major league ready talent.

Maybe this is some weird way to get guys under contract as cheaply as possible into the system, but there is no magic evaluation system going on that they send these guys through.

 

 

[spiritof66]

Maybe Elias's compensation is tied to the number of off-season transactions he enters into, or the average cost per transaction.

[Aristotelian]

1 hour ago, Tony-OH said:

You guys crack me up with "The orioles want to take a look" at journeyman AAA catchers by putting them on the 40-man."

I get it, many of you are so happy after a great season that Elias can now do no wrong. He can make ridiculous moves and people will just be like, eh, he's a genius so of course this must be right. I mean, what team doesn't have 3 journeyman catchers including a 33 year old who was a back up catcher in AAA on their 40-man roster?

Look, I agree with those that say ultimately none of this matters right now and the guys they are removing are guys that can be easily found again, but I'm not going to just accept that this makes sense because Elias is doing it.

But hey, why should we challenge a GM that played Odor and Aguilar down the stretch while his team was still in contention for a wild car spot? Elias is clearly infallible here to some and I get it after the nice year, but the historic losing was under Elias as well.

I will leave you guys with this, while this really doesn't stop the team from doing anything and any of these spare part catchers can be jettisoned at will, I question the analytical evaluations of a team that believes protecting a 33-year old back up AAA catcher is so valuable that they see a need to protect him on the 40-man.

Considering this team felt Aguilar would help down the stretch despite being terrible all year with Miami, and their analysis that Odor was the best player to play a bunch during a stretch run, make me question this organization when it comes to evaluating major league ready talent.

Maybe this is some weird way to get guys under contract as cheaply as possible into the system, but there is no magic evaluation system going on that they send these guys through.

 

 

Challenging the GM is fair game but I'm not sure this is the best case. If these guys are still on the 40 for the Rule 5 then yeah, something has gone terribly wrong. What would be the big deal if we claimed these guys, then tried to pass them through waivers? 

I agree with you on Aguilar, that is absolutely fair. 

[CHIP]

4 hours ago, Jammer7 said:

 

Maybe this gives the team’s coaches an opportunity to meet with them, evaluate in person, perhaps send them to a Driveline type environment to see what they can improve on. They have a little over a month to evaluate them fully. 

 

Maybe Driveline will give the Orioles a group discount?     https://twitter.com/Joney93/status/1581324388498276353?s=20&t=TA4iQ89_SgSOL35T25XBEQ

[wildcard]

1 hour ago, Tony-OH said:

You guys crack me up with "The orioles want to take a look" at journeyman AAA catchers by putting them on the 40-man."

I get it, many of you are so happy after a great season that Elias can now do no wrong. He can make ridiculous moves and people will just be like, eh, he's a genius so of course this must be right. I mean, what team doesn't have 3 journeyman catchers including a 33 year old who was a back up catcher in AAA on their 40-man roster?

Look, I agree with those that say ultimately none of this matters right now and the guys they are removing are guys that can be easily found again, but I'm not going to just accept that this makes sense because Elias is doing it.

But hey, why should we challenge a GM that played Odor and Aguilar down the stretch while his team was still in contention for a wild car spot? Elias is clearly infallible here to some and I get it after the nice year, but the historic losing was under Elias as well.

I will leave you guys with this, while this really doesn't stop the team from doing anything and any of these spare part catchers can be jettisoned at will, I question the analytical evaluations of a team that believes protecting a 33-year old back up AAA catcher is so valuable that they see a need to protect him on the 40-man.

Considering this team felt Aguilar would help down the stretch despite being terrible all year with Miami, and their analysis that Odor was the best player to play a bunch during a stretch run, make me question this organization when it comes to evaluating major league ready talent.

Maybe this is some weird way to get guys under contract as cheaply as possible into the system, but there is no magic evaluation system going on that they send these guys through.

 

 

Tony, what is the profile of a backup for Adley?  My guess is a good defensive catcher with some major league experience that can hit lefties since Adley didn't  hit them very well in him first year.

We have to remember that when Elias puts a claim on waviered players he does not know if he  will get him.   On waiver claims he is about 17th on the waiver list  by record.   So he could have put in a claims on Garcia and Kolo because they have options and not known that he would get either or both.   Players with options can help fill out the AAA roster and be called to the majors at any time.

Chirinos is going to be a free agent so he will be gone right after the World Series. 

Bemboom may have made some sense before Elias got the last two waiver claims but now its probably doubtful he fits even at AAA.

Gallagher has experience and is thought to be a good backup catcher but he has no options and does not hit lefties.   

I still think he protects Handley who will be at AAA next season.   In addition he will have one backup catcher at the majors and one sharing PT with Handley at AAA.  

Elias is not done trying to acquire backup catchers is my guess.  He is just incrementally trying to get better without spending much money.

Edited October 15, 2022 by wildcard

[Bahama O's Fan]

Hoping this is the offseason that I don't think, "Who is that guy?"

[wildcard]

8 minutes ago, Bahama O's Fan said:

Hoping this is the offseason that I don't think, "Who is that guy?"

Not much chance of that with the O's analytics department involved.    They will do their evaluation and come up with some guys we don't know and don't expect to be in an O's uniform.

[Legend_Of_Joey]

Elias calling all the catchers he’s put on the 40 to the Warehouse as soon as the World Series ends…

 

[Jammer7]

17 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

You guys crack me up with "The orioles want to take a look" at journeyman AAA catchers by putting them on the 40-man."

I get it, many of you are so happy after a great season that Elias can now do no wrong. He can make ridiculous moves and people will just be like, eh, he's a genius so of course this must be right. I mean, what team doesn't have 3 journeyman catchers including a 33 year old who was a back up catcher in AAA on their 40-man roster?

Look, I agree with those that say ultimately none of this matters right now and the guys they are removing are guys that can be easily found again, but I'm not going to just accept that this makes sense because Elias is doing it.

But hey, why should we challenge a GM that played Odor and Aguilar down the stretch while his team was still in contention for a wild car spot? Elias is clearly infallible here to some and I get it after the nice year, but the historic losing was under Elias as well.

I will leave you guys with this, while this really doesn't stop the team from doing anything and any of these spare part catchers can be jettisoned at will, I question the analytical evaluations of a team that believes protecting a 33-year old back up AAA catcher is so valuable that they see a need to protect him on the 40-man.

Considering this team felt Aguilar would help down the stretch despite being terrible all year with Miami, and their analysis that Odor was the best player to play a bunch during a stretch run, make me question this organization when it comes to evaluating major league ready talent.

Maybe this is some weird way to get guys under contract as cheaply as possible into the system, but there is no magic evaluation system going on that they send these guys through.

 

 

We just don’t know why they do things sometimes. Every team makes moves that the fans don’t understand. With what they have accomplished in Baltimore so far, some of us are inclined to wait and see. Maybe give them the benefit of the doubt. 

Criticizing the GM/manager or whatever, of course that’s fair game. It’s part of being a fan, and it goes with being the GM. Three journeymen catchers added is absolutely puzzling.

But why is it a crazy idea to take a look at low cost options for a possible AAA depth or back up job with the big club? They can still jettison them in a month if it isn’t a good fit. They know all about Bemboom, so that one is the oddest for me. But for the other two, get them to Sarasota and some informal workouts. Talk with them about analytics and pitch selections and sequencing. When they are on your roster, you can do that. Garcia is supposed to be an excellent framer, and that would be a tremendous upgrade to Chirinos.

Is Cave a better bench player than Stowers? IDK, but maybe they want Stowers to play everyday if he doesn’t make the opening day roster in a meaningful role. Can Cave buy some time and provide some limited value in a limited role? Maybe.

Perhaps I’m way off on my speculation. I’m just trying to figure it out like the rest of you, minus the Elias bashing. Trying to find a legitimate reason. I know, that’s crazy talk. Maybe he just does silly things to entertain us message board types in the offseason.