Rosenthal: Angels looking to upgrade SS, not likely to get any of the big 4 FAs

[Sports Guy]

4 minutes ago, interloper said:

I guess we'll find out soon whether or not the O's think he can be ML SS. Maybe! For me he's a 3B. 

He clearly can play SS. Just a matter of that’s the best place for him and the team.

Im fine with handing it over to Ortiz personally.

Edited December 5, 2022 by Sports Guy

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, interloper said:

I guess we'll find out soon whether or not the O's think he can be ML SS. Maybe! For me he's a 3B. 

I don't know how much of him you have seen but I haven't made up my mind.

Until he proves he can't do it I'd like him out there.

[NCRaven]

5 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

I agree..but who?  Trying to think of who else is potentially available, for a team with a weaker farm system, that they could acquire.

Angles might actually prefer Urias over Mateo for short.  A step down on defense but a definite step up with the bat.  Could be more interested in Ortiz.  Good glove and an unproven bat.  Just not sure how we'd match up with them.

[interloper]

4 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

He clearly can play SS. Just a matter of that’s the best player for him.

Im fine with handing it over to Ortiz personally.

Why? We've barely seen Ortiz play a whole season in the minor leagues, much less what he looks like in a ML setting. I'm sure his defense is fine, but is it better than Mateo? Is it better than Gunnar? Will he hit? I'm not handing the starting SS reigns over to Ortiz in a year we're supposed to compete. It would be great if he cracks the ML roster at some point this year, but anything more than that feels like a stretch. 

Again, just my opinion. 

Edited December 5, 2022 by interloper

[Sports Guy]

Just now, interloper said:

Why? We've barely seen Ortiz play a whole season in the minor leagues, much less what he looks like in a ML setting. I'm sure his defense is fine, but is it better than Mateo? Is it better than Gunnar? Will he hit? I'm not handing the starting SS reigns over to Ortiz in a year we're supposed to compete. It would be great if he cracks the ML roster at some point this year, but anything more than that feels like a stretch. 

I mean, have you read anything about Ortiz?

[NCRaven]

3 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I don't know how much of him you have seen but I haven't made up my mind.

Until he proves he can't do it I'd like him out there.

Agreed.  Every report says that the glove plays at SS.  And his bat at that position would be special.  Keep Urias at third and let Mateo, Vavra, Westburg, Norby, Ortiz, et. al. fight it out for 2B.

[interloper]

Just now, Sports Guy said:

I mean, have you read anything about Ortiz?

Yes, of course. "ML-ready defensive SS", etc. I'm still not trading Mateo in order to make room for Ortiz. If you want to trade Mateo to make room for Gunnar, I get that. 

I'm not in love with Mateo, I just don't think a) he gets you much in a trade, especially from the Angels, and b) that we'd hand the reigns over to a rookie in a competing year. Maybe they would, I don't know. I don't think it's likely. 

[Aristotelian]

5 minutes ago, NCRaven said:

Maybe they'll look for a shortstop that comes with a glove and bat.  I can't see any team targeting Mateo.

Maybe we could convince them that Urias can play SS? He was a gold glove 3B.

[Sports Guy]

7 minutes ago, interloper said:

Yes, of course. "ML-ready defensive SS", etc. I'm still not trading Mateo in order to make room for Ortiz. If you want to trade Mateo to make room for Gunnar, I get that. 

I'm not in love with Mateo, I just don't think a) he gets you much in a trade, especially from the Angels, and b) that we'd hand the reigns over to a rookie in a competing year. Maybe they would, I don't know. I don't think it's likely. 

If only the Astros didn’t hand SS to a rookie in a contending year.

[Brooks The Great]

24 minutes ago, interloper said:

I don't really see Mateo as a trade candidate for that reason, unless the Orioles miraculously end up with one of the Big 4. Right now, Mateo is your proven SS with the big defensive metrics. I'm not trading him just to give Westburg or Ortiz a turn at SS. 

I definitely am. I think both Westburg and Ortiz are upgrades over Mateo right now. That's how bad Mateo is with the bat, how good Westburg is with the bat, and how good Ortiz is with both with his glove and bat.

 

26 minutes ago, interloper said:

Do they have anything worthwhile to give us in a trade? Mateo is clearly a fit for them, sure, but he's also one of the reasons (according to Ken) that Gibson signed here ("infield defense"). I don't think we can run out Jordan Westburg or even Gunnar at SS and claim to have a proven infield defense.

I love Edgar Quero. Getting him for Mateo would be a steal and found money, considering Elias picked Mateo up off of waivers. The Angels are both in win-now mode and a poorly-run franchise, so it might be possible that they'd give us Quero for Mateo.

We need to keep stacking talent and also make some room for our middle infield prospects at the minor league level. Trading Mateo should be one of the top priorities of the offseason, and doing so will make the Orioles a better team in 2023.

[interloper]

1 minute ago, Sports Guy said:

If only the Astros didn’t hand SS to a rookie in a contending year.

And what does their pitching staff look like compared to ours? We still need to shepherd some of these SP along, especially Grayson. I don't really want our top prospect pitching with a unknown quantity at SS. At least not to start the year. 

Again, if you can find me a guy on the Angels who moves the needle for us that is attainable via a Mateo trade, please have at it. I'm open to changing my mind. 

[Sports Guy]

1 minute ago, interloper said:

And what does their pitching staff look like compared to ours? We still need to shepherd some of these SP along, especially Grayson. I don't really want our top prospect pitching with a unknown quantity at SS. At least not to start the year. 

Again, if you can find me a guy on the Angels who moves the needle for us that is attainable via a Mateo trade, please have at it. I'm open to changing my mind. 

There are plenty of guys. You just have to understand the market and not expect a top top guy.

I mentioned Ben Joyce. If we can add him as part of a package for Mateo, that would be nice. 

[interloper]

8 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

There are plenty of guys. You just have to understand the market and not expect a top top guy.

I mentioned Ben Joyce. If we can add him as part of a package for Mateo, that would be nice. 

Joyce is a nice target. It's going to take a lot more than Mateo, and at that point you're not adding to your ML roster. And if I'm the Angels, I'm using Joyce to find a much better SS. 

[LTO's]

11 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

There are plenty of guys. You just have to understand the market and not expect a top top guy.

I mentioned Ben Joyce. If we can add him as part of a package for Mateo, that would be nice. 

The Angels are the most pitching starved team in baseball and it could be even worse if Ohtani leaves. If Elias is able to get Joyce for a SS with a sub .650 OPS they should just give him a lifetime contract. 

[Sports Guy]

4 minutes ago, interloper said:

Joyce is a nice target. It's going to take a lot more than Mateo, and at that point you're not adding to your ML roster. And if I'm the Angels, I'm using Joyce to find a much better SS. 

Joyce is their 14th ranked prospect in a system that isn’t good.  You are extremely overrating Joyce. 

And who is the better SS that is potentially available?