Is it possible that we (the Hangout fans) are just not patient enough??

[sportsfan8703]

1 hour ago, Just Regular said:

Poking around the last 10 World Series champions, all had at least a couple mercenaries.     One of the cheapest was the 21 Braves Drew Smyly for 1/11, so maybe he's just the thing.    I was looking here for Players the Club essentially bought on the market to help make the team a champion.     The numbers are what Cot's gives as what those guys took in that year.

22 Astros - Verlander 25, Brantley 16

21 Braves - Morton 15, Smyly 11

20 Dodgers - Mookie 27, Turner 20      (I don't count their David Price sloppy leftovers from Boston)

19 Nationals - Scherzer 37, Corbin 13     (Max at last getting some of his deferred chunks while Corbin waited below AAV)

18 Red Sox - Price 30, JD Martinez 23

17 Astros - McCann 17, Beltran 16

16 Cubs - Lester 25, Heyward 21

15 Royals - Rios 11, Guthrie 9

14 Giants - Pence 16, Tim Hudson 11

13 Red Sox - Lackey 15, Dempster 13      (that lookup also activated memories of gnashing of teeth around here the 2012-13 offseason when BOS and not our 2012 up-and-comers got those guys - the Arrieta for Feldman deal would happen July 2013.

Good research!!!  Maybe We could afford Rich Hill and Michael Brantley. 

[RZNJ]

1 minute ago, Moose Milligan said:

Also, there's a line between being "not patient" and being upset about how this offseason has gone.  The line can get a little blurry at times, but it looks like a lot of fans took that "liftoff" comment very seriously and are pissed.  Especially coming off the season that we had where we surprised a lot of people, took a quantum leap forward in the win column and can see the minor league system paying off...it felt like this was an offseason where we could pull up a chair to the adults table.

So yeah, I think it's easy to confuse "not patient" with being pissed.  

What's the difference?   The people who are pissed are not being patient.  lol

[JR Oriole]

I don't have quantifiable data on the psyche of our collective fanbase, but I would feel comfortable making the argument that we may be the most patient and tolerant fanbase in major league baseball.

The Orioles won the World Series on October 16, 1983 (I was 8 1/2 years old and barely remember it).  Since that time, there have been 39 baseball seasons and 38 playoff seasons.  We have won 0 championships, 0 pennants, 3 LCS games (none since Game 5 of the 1997 ALCS, which took place 302 months ago today), 2 division titles, and been at or above .500 in only 14 of those 39 seasons.  

Given the insanely bad ROI this team has produced over the last four decades and the ownership family from hell that just won't go away, our fans deserve an enormous amount of credit for being as loyal and devoted as we are.  

So whether you are extremely patient like many of our hangout mates here or are done with the patience game like I am, I don't think there is any way I would ever in good conscience say we are not patient enough.  No way.  

[Sports Guy]

The whole rebuild nonsense lasted longer than it should have. Even now, you still here that word being used.

When you have a chance to win, you do it. You don’t assume that you will contend later because that’s what your plan says

Signing Eovaldi and obtaining 1-2 bats right now isn’t stopping anything for the long term.

Make this team better.  Nothing impatient about wanting your team to win when it’s set up to do so.

[Moose Milligan]

12 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

What's the difference?   The people who are pissed are not being patient.  lol

Well, fair enough.  Like I said, the lines are a bit blurry.

However, the market got off to a hot start, teams have been throwing around money, making deals and we've been rendered to the sidelines.  There are not a lot of players left that make sense for us.  

The FA market has been fast paced, and either Elias wasn't prepared for it or wasn't interested in it.  I'll say given how the market has gone, there wasn't a lot of time to be patient with the way that talent could have helped us and we could have afforded flew off the market.  

[DrinkinWithFermi]

14 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

I don't think it's just the OH fans that are not patient.  Elias is getting draaaaaaaagged on Twitter.  

 

I can only imagine (literally, because I don't have a Twitter account).

I bet a lot of them would see what I would have been perfectly satisfied with in terms of offseason moves and raged at me for being cheap or not caring about winning or being an Angelos shill or whatever, and even those modest hopes/expectations seem to have been significantly inflated and utterly unrealistic.

They must really be losing their minds.

[RZNJ]

1 minute ago, Moose Milligan said:

Well, fair enough.  Like I said, the lines are a bit blurry.

However, the market got off to a hot start, teams have been throwing around money, making deals and we've been rendered to the sidelines.  There are not a lot of players left that make sense for us.  

The FA market has been fast paced, and either Elias wasn't prepared for it or wasn't interested in it.  I'll say given how the market has gone, there wasn't a lot of time to be patient with the way that talent could have helped us and we could have afforded flew off the market.  

Elias said they would be agressive in FA but he also said that he could see them do trades or FA or both.    I have no idea what he winds up doing or if I'll like it but it's way too early to pass judgement.   It's definitely an "incomplete" but people want to act like it's over.

There are plenty of trade chips between Urias, Mateo, and the prospects.    I'm curious to see what he does.   Others have already made up their minds.

[Moshagge3]

Slightly off-topic, but the Elias doublespeak where he says simultaneously "we're totally trying to get into the playoffs this year" and also "we're not ready to win the division so don't get your hopes up for spending" is exactly why the expanded playoffs is awful for baseball. Even five years ago no GM could seriously say their team was a playoff contender without at least entertaining the idea of them winning their division. But now it's what I predicted: every miserly front office with a cheap 78-win roster can do nothing and still say that they put their team in a position to make the playoffs.

 

[DrinkinWithFermi]

5 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Elias said they would be agressive in FA but he also said that he could see them do trades or FA or both.    I have no idea what he winds up doing or if I'll like it but it's way too early to pass judgement.   It's definitely an "incomplete" but people want to act like it's over.

There are plenty of trade chips between Urias, Mateo, and the prospects.    I'm curious to see what he does.   Others have already made up their minds.

Having lots of trade chips is nice, but you also need trade targets to cash them in on. There are definitely a few interesting ones supposedly available, but there will be plenty of competition for them and it remains to be seen if Elias will be willing to win the bidding against other motivated buyers, much less whether he even should be.

Time will tell, and I will be interested to see what a buy-trade from Elias looks like if he finds one he is willing to pull the trigger on.

[RZNJ]

Just now, DrinkinWithFermi said:

Having lots of trade chips is nice, but you also need trade targets to cash them in on. There are definitely a few interesting ones supposedly available, but there will be plenty of competition for them and it remains to be seen if Elias will be willing to win the bidding against other motivated buyers, much less whether he even should be.

Time will tell, and I will be interested to see what a buy-trade from Elias looks like if he finds one he is willing to pull the trigger on.

Remains to be seen.  Time will tell.   Exactly.

[Frobby]

4 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Elias said they would be agressive in FA but he also said that he could see them do trades or FA or both.    I have no idea what he winds up doing or if I'll like it but it's way too early to pass judgement.   It's definitely an "incomplete" but people want to act like it's over.

There are plenty of trade chips between Urias, Mateo, and the prospects.    I'm curious to see what he does.   Others have already made up their minds.

I’ve said basically the same thing about a dozen times in the last two weeks.  But honestly, I understand why fans are extremely nervous.  About 2/3 or 3/4 of the FA pitchers who plausibly could be called upgrades are off the market, and there’s not even a rumor out there that the O’s are in on the remainders.   As to trades, it looks like in this market the cost (in terms of prospects) could be quite high, and that has its own downsides.   

In hindsight, I wish Elias had been less encouraging in his public statements about his offseason plans back in August, October and even at the start of the Winter Meetings.   I never took “liftoff” to mean we were going to increase payroll drastically, but I did take his “significant investment in the major-league payroll” comment seriously.   It still may happen, but as a fan, I would rather have gone into the offseason without any expectations and then been pleasantly surprised by whatever the O’s did, than be waiting on tenterhooks for that promise to be fulfilled, while watching the odds get worse by the day.
 

[DrinkinWithFermi]

3 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I’ve said basically the same thing about a dozen times in the last two weeks.  But honestly, I understand why fans are extremely nervous.  About 2/3 or 3/4 of the FA pitchers who plausibly could be called upgrades are off the market, and there’s not even a rumor out there that the O’s are in on the remainders.   As to trades, it looks like in this market the cost (in terms of prospects) could be quite high, and that has its own downsides.   

In hindsight, I wish Elias had been less encouraging in his public statements about his offseason plans back in August, October and even at the start of the Winter Meetings.   I never took “liftoff” to mean we were going to increase payroll drastically, but I did take his “significant investment in the major-league payroll” comment seriously.   It still may happen, but as a fan, I would rather have gone into the offseason without any expectations and then been pleasantly surprised by whatever the O’s did, than be waiting on tenterhooks for that promise to be fulfilled, while watching the odds get worse by the day.
 

Regardless of how things ultimately shake out, I really hope we get some kind of info on who those alleged multiyear offers were for and how far off the final deal they were. 

[Can_of_corn]

7 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I’ve said basically the same thing about a dozen times in the last two weeks.  But honestly, I understand why fans are extremely nervous.  About 2/3 or 3/4 of the FA pitchers who plausibly could be called upgrades are off the market, and there’s not even a rumor out there that the O’s are in on the remainders.   As to trades, it looks like in this market the cost (in terms of prospects) could be quite high, and that has its own downsides.   

In hindsight, I wish Elias had been less encouraging in his public statements about his offseason plans back in August, October and even at the start of the Winter Meetings.   I never took “liftoff” to mean we were going to increase payroll drastically, but I did take his “significant investment in the major-league payroll” comment seriously.   It still may happen, but as a fan, I would rather have gone into the offseason without any expectations and then been pleasantly surprised by whatever the O’s did, than be waiting on tenterhooks for that promise to be fulfilled, while watching the odds get worse by the day.
 

Thanks for tenterhooks.

[tntoriole]

4 hours ago, Sanity Check said:

I fully support signing our best guys to long term deals, like both of those organizations did.  I mentioned it in my post.

If we do that, our payroll will go up for sure, which is what we want, and there will be less to complain about.

If we don't do that, then we can all agree, they're just not trying, and they're not learning ALL of the lessons from the successful franchises.

I must have been watching a different Angelos family than you have the last 30 years.  i know, I know John ain’t Peter.  Well maybe the internal dynamics have changed cause this sure looks a lot like it did under the old man. 

Why would I possibly doubt that they will do what it takes to build a successful organization lol? 
 

Signing a guy like Bassitt breaks nobodies bank and is not “insane.”  And letting him be in rotation with Manoah and Gausman  in Toronto makes it less likely we get to the playoffs. If they had done this one thing, everyone would be fine right now.  And if they do sign Rodon, I will retract everything I just said. 

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

Let’s just hope the theme of the 2022-23 off-season doesn’t end up being: Failure to Launch

I have to think ownership is the cause of the inaction so far and I hope it’s in preparation for selling the team rather than frugalness.