What is the real reason for our off season?

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, DrinkinWithFermi said:

I'm pretty sure he's just being contrarian for the sake of being contrarian.

Cool strawman 

Could be and if he is he won and managed to get me to waste two minutes trying to explain it.

[Orioles0615]

1 hour ago, Yardball85 said:

It would be very Orioles of them to somehow have Spenser Watkins in the Opening Day rotation.  And Roch talking him up as being just as good as the free agents we didn't sign. Because Orioles. 

I can already see it now, Roch writing about Voth, Watkins, and a few other minor leaguers getting starts in spring training as if they are rotation candidates. Meanwhile Grayson makes 4 spring training starts without ever going more than 3 innings and is sent to AAA to "build his innings" 

[Yardball85]

1 minute ago, Orioles0615 said:

I can already see it now, Roch writing about Voth, Watkins, and a few other minor leaguers getting starts in spring training as if they are rotation candidates. Meanwhile Grayson makes 4 spring training starts without ever going more than 3 innings and is sent to AAA to "build his innings" 

something something the production of the top free agents at a fraction of the cost something something lol 

[oriolediehard]

Does Elias and Angelos realize fans notice they are doing little to make us a contender for 2023? Do they think us fans don't notice other teams scooping up the best available FA's everyday?  They don't realize that you have to overpay and take some risks?  Why is it OK for most other teams to overpay and take risks but not the O's.  Why don't Angelos announce the truth to the fans, he don't want the financial responsibility it takes to put a good product on the field like all other owners do. I don't understand why Angelos wants to keep the team when he don't want any risks like other team owners accept. I know Angelos got burned with Ubaldo, C.Davis and Cobb, if he had hired the proper personnel then to analyze the FA's available there would have been better results.  He now has the personnel, but Angelos still don't listen to the personnel. He could still salvage the off season with the signing of Cueto, Wacha. 

[SteveA]

20 hours ago, 2001OriolesFan said:

How about our improvement is going to come from our loaded farm system which is just starting to come to MLB.  It is NOT going to come from spending tens of million dollars for a few big name, aging players.  I guess the author hasn't checked to see that we have 4 new and improved pitchers coming in 2023, as well as expected improvement in last year's starters.

I'd put more stock in that if we were populating this loaded farm system with pitchers as well as hitters.

[emmett16]

7 minutes ago, oriolediehard said:

Does Elias and Angelos realize fans notice they are doing little to make us a contender for 2023? Do they think us fans don't notice other teams scooping up the best available FA's everyday?  They don't realize that you have to overpay and take some risks?  Why is it OK for most other teams to overpay and take risks but not the O's.  Why don't Angelos announce the truth to the fans, he don't want the financial responsibility it takes to put a good product on the field like all other owners do. I don't understand why Angelos wants to keep the team when he don't want any risks like other team owners accept. I know Angelos got burned with Ubaldo, C.Davis and Cobb, if he had hired the proper personnel then to analyze the FA's available there would have been better results.  He now has the personnel, but Angelos still don't listen to the personnel. He could still salvage the off season with the signing of Cueto, Wacha. 

I think they also realize that the fans have been taking all the BS for decades and that neither fans( maybe 5-10k season ticket holders left?) nor local media will hold them accountable.  

[eddie83]

38 minutes ago, DrinkinWithFermi said:

I'm pretty sure he's just being contrarian for the sake of being contrarian.

Cool strawman 

I’m never contrarian for the sake of being contrarian. 

[ThisIsBirdland]

2 minutes ago, emmett16 said:

I think they also realize that the fans have been taking all the BS for decades and that neither fans( maybe 5-10k season ticket holders left?) nor local media will hold them accountable.  

Or is it also possible that they just don't value these free agents the way we as fans do? That they may view organization-building more in the Rays model versus the Padres model.

It's the off-season. The only thing that matters is if they show acceptable improvement next year or not. I'm skeptical like most people are on here but until we see how the team and the signings perform next year, I just don't think there's much room for concrete assessments of this off-season.

[eddie83]

40 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Sigh.

OK, let's go over this nice and slow.

First off.

This is framed as a statement of fact.  They will not get dealt if they are producing and the team is winning.  You didn't way "it will be unlikely" or "I doubt".

I said:

I cited Elias behavior last year, in which the team was winning and he traded players that were producing.  This was my way of showing that I did not think it was a predetermined fact that Elias would not engage in the behavior in the next season.

You reply with this.

Which I think I've just explained.

You come back with this.

And this is the part where I questioned if you had read everything correctly.

At no point did I state that he would do such a thing.  I was just saying that we don't know for a fact that he won't.

You were the one dealing in an absolute.

I'm not sure how you can say he won't do X when he did X just last year.  If he finds himself in a similar situation in the 2023 season I wouldn't be at all surprised to find him act in a similar manner.

I don’t think the situations are the same that’s why. He admitted 2022 was more about acquiring talent and not about the MLB team. He views this season as a playoff contender.  
 

[SteveA]

1 hour ago, Can_of_corn said:

Last year the same person did what you are saying he won't possibly do this year.

I'm at a loss how you don't think that information might be relevant.

We were still in countdown.   That was before LIFTOFF!!!

[eddie83]

43 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Could be and if he is he won and managed to get me to waste two minutes trying to explain it.

I’m not here to waste anyone’s time. I give my honest thoughts.
 

This isn’t a sports talk radio show I’m hosting and get paid to do so. I can’t stand when hosts create stories on those shows. 

[Moose Milligan]

 

18 minutes ago, oriolediehard said:

Does Elias and Angelos realize fans notice they are doing little to make us a contender for 2023? Do they think us fans don't notice other teams scooping up the best available FA's everyday?  They don't realize that you have to overpay and take some risks?  Why is it OK for most other teams to overpay and take risks but not the O's.  Why don't Angelos announce the truth to the fans, he don't want the financial responsibility it takes to put a good product on the field like all other owners do. I don't understand why Angelos wants to keep the team when he don't want any risks like other team owners accept. I know Angelos got burned with Ubaldo, C.Davis and Cobb, if he had hired the proper personnel then to analyze the FA's available there would have been better results.  He now has the personnel, but Angelos still don't listen to the personnel. He could still salvage the off season with the signing of Cueto, Wacha. 

 

I believe Elias is looking for better performance from a full year of Adley, a full year of Gunnar and the debut of Grayson Rodriguez and whatever innings he can provide.  Gibson might do a Lyles impression, Frazier is better than Odor (which is a low bar to hurdle, he's still not worth 8 million), McCann is a better backup catcher than Chirinos (another low bar to hurdle) and Givens should be a solid bullpen piece.

But they're banking on the real improvement coming from 2nd year players and rookies which is a dicey proposition.  It could work well, it could fail miserably.  It's a pretty pathetic overall approach though, there were free agents that could have bolstered the rotation and it's terrible that we weren't ever in the running for them.

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, eddie83 said:

I don’t think the situations are the same that’s why. He admitted 2022 was more about acquiring talent and not about the MLB team. He views this season as a playoff contender.  
 

But...but...they could easily find themselves in a similar situation.

It is possible that at around the deadline the O's are hanging a couple games over .500 with an outside shot at the third wildcard.

If that happens why wouldn't he act the same way as he did in 2022? 

Why are you discounting the very possibility?

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, Moose Milligan said:

 

 

I believe Elias is looking for better performance from a full year of Adley, a full year of Gunnar and the debut of Grayson Rodriguez and whatever innings he can provide.  Gibson might do a Lyles impression, Frazier is better than Odor (which is a low bar to hurdle, he's still not worth 8 million), McCann is a better backup catcher than Chirinos (another low bar to hurdle) and Givens should be a solid bullpen piece.

But they're banking on the real improvement coming from 2nd year players and rookies which is a dicey proposition.  It could work well, it could fail miserably.  It's a pretty pathetic overall approach though, there were free agents that could have bolstered the rotation and it's terrible that we weren't ever in the running for them.

Don't worry, once the fans do their job and spend money on the team some of the additional revenue will trickled down into future payroll.

[eddie83]

Just now, Can_of_corn said:

But...but...they could easily find themselves in a similar situation.

It is possible that at around the deadline the O's are hanging a couple games over .500 with an outside shot at the third wildcard.

If that happens why wouldn't he act the same way as he did in 2022? 

Why are you discounting the very possibility?

Because the talent level and goal of the season’s are completely different. 
 

Last year he flew down to Texas instead of waiting for the team to come home after the deadline. He wanted to talk to players. He talked about how they are done acting in this manner. He stated basically that was the end of them operating that way. 
 

There is no way he will go down that road again. He would completely lose the clubhouse and the fan base would flip. You can’t state the team is viewed as a contender and then turn around and ditch a possible playoff season for the future. He didn’t buy into the 2022 team. He and the organization lose all credibility.