Kostka: Os need to follow a different path

[Sports Guy]

5 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Grayson Rodriguez?   

Zero reason he can’t throw 140ish innings this year.

And you have other options to pitch for depth reasons as well.

[spiritof66]

3 hours ago, Grady said:

Could the team be saving the free agent money or the money they have saved over the past years to sign Adley , Henderson and Rodriguez to long term deals before they hit arbitration? 

That could be. But I don't know of any evidence suggesting that the Orioles are about to make an effort to lock up young talent, or that such an effort would succeed.

I think it's much more likely that John Angelos (assuming he's the decision-maker) wants to protect profits, most of which, it appears, will go to him and his brother through their inheritance (and some portion of which he may already be directing to himself, or to the team's owners, which he's one of). 

I believe that for the past couple of years the team has been operating under, and Elias has been constrained by, a decision to enhance the team's appeal to prospective buyers by minimizing future payroll commitments and preserving the next owner's options for how much and how to add payroll -- including things like signing free agents to long-term contracts, making trades for guys with contracts, reaching decisions to part with the team's valuable talent in trades, and entering into long-term deals with players now under team control. That would mean putting on hold anything that would foreclose the next owner's spending options., and that's what's happened. To me, that's the explanation that best fits the facts.

If that's the case, there won't be any lift-off under the Angeloses' ownership, just a a series of short-term, opportunistic efforts to improve the team via adding free agents, waived, or released or Rule 5 players, and possibly the trade of a veteran or two like Mateo, Urias, Santander or Hays.

[Number5]

2 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

Eovaldi is about 17M a year.  Westburg is 740k.

Gibson is 10M and Frazier is 8M.

That’s essentially the same money unless math has changed?

As for Westburg, he’s ready to be here. My point is I would rather have him playing every day and sign Eovaldi than the combo they went with.

It doesn’t matter that he’s still with the team. He’s not getting those everyday at bats unless stuff is going to happen and he is the third baseman and Gunnar is the SS.

My post was clear and accurate.  It is you that is attempting to change math.  Voodoo economics.  The cost is far from equal.  Repeating yourself doesn't change the facts.  Eovaldi cost Texas $34 million guaranteed plus a draft pick.  Paying him only half of the $34 million is not an option.  Frazier will almost certainly not cost the Orioles anything in 2024, and if Gibson is resigned, that would only mean that he had performed very well in 2023.

I believe that the Orioles do want Westburg playing everyday, which is why he'll likely start the season at Norfolk.  The Frazier signing surprised me, but Westburg wasn't in line to be in Baltimore's starting infield whether Frazier was signed or not.  There are valid arguments to be made against signing Frazier, IMO, but claiming Westburg was going to play everyday in Baltimore to start the year and Eovaldi is at equal cost aren't among them.  I do believe the plan is for Westburg to be playing everyday in Baltimore in 2024, and very likely at some point this year.  

One has to acknowledge Eovaldi's upside, but the obvious risk that comes with him is  also a weighty consideration.  Make your case, if you believe the Orioles should have made the leap and offered him big bucks and forfeited the Comp Round B pick, but don't pretend that the cost was something less than what it was.  Maybe he will pan out for the Rangers, but I'm personally OK with the Orioles' passing on him.  There were other free agent SPs that I felt represented better and more realistic targets for Baltimore.  I do find it a bit odd that you champion spending so much to sign Eovaldi, yet elsewhere portray Santander as being a huge injury risk.  The two positions do not seem congruous.

[Sports Guy]

45 minutes ago, Number5 said:

My post was clear and accurate.  It is you that is attempting to change math.  Voodoo economics.  The cost is far from equal.  Repeating yourself doesn't change the facts.  Eovaldi cost Texas $34 million guaranteed plus a draft pick.  Paying him only half of the $34 million is not an option.  Frazier will almost certainly not cost the Orioles anything in 2024, and if Gibson is resigned, that would only mean that he had performed very well in 2023.

I believe that the Orioles do want Westburg playing everyday, which is why he'll likely start the season at Norfolk.  The Frazier signing surprised me, but Westburg wasn't in line to be in Baltimore's starting infield whether Frazier was signed or not.  There are valid arguments to be made against signing Frazier, IMO, but claiming Westburg was going to play everyday in Baltimore to start the year and Eovaldi is at equal cost aren't among them.  I do believe the plan is for Westburg to be playing everyday in Baltimore in 2024, and very likely at some point this year.  

One has to acknowledge Eovaldi's upside, but the obvious risk that comes with him is  also a weighty consideration.  Make your case, if you believe the Orioles should have made the leap and offered him big bucks and forfeited the Comp Round B pick, but don't pretend that the cost was something less than what it was.  Maybe he will pan out for the Rangers, but I'm personally OK with the Orioles' passing on him.  There were other free agent SPs that I felt represented better and more realistic targets for Baltimore.  I do find it a bit odd that you champion spending so much to sign Eovaldi, yet elsewhere portray Santander as being a huge injury risk.  The two positions do not seem congruous.

My post was in reference to the payroll in 2023.  That should have been obvious.

[Number5]

1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:

My post was in reference to the payroll in 2023.  That should have been obvious.

Pretending that is the full cost is wrong.  That is obvious.

[Tony-OH]

On 1/6/2023 at 8:37 PM, Can_of_corn said:

He's no Glenn Gulliver.

Man, this is not the thread, but Gulliver was such an interesting player that was undervalued back in the 70's and 80's when OBP was not valued as much as it is now. 

[Sports Guy]

1 minute ago, Number5 said:

Pretending that is the full cost is wrong.  That is obvious.

I didn’t pretend that. Your misinterpretation of my post is your problem, not mine

 

[wildcard]

2 hours ago, Number5 said:

My post was clear and accurate.  It is you that is attempting to change math.  Voodoo economics.  The cost is far from equal.  Repeating yourself doesn't change the facts.  Eovaldi cost Texas $34 million guaranteed plus a draft pick.  Paying him only half of the $34 million is not an option.  Frazier will almost certainly not cost the Orioles anything in 2024, and if Gibson is resigned, that would only mean that he had performed very well in 2023.

I believe that the Orioles do want Westburg playing everyday, which is why he'll likely start the season at Norfolk.  The Frazier signing surprised me, but Westburg wasn't in line to be in Baltimore's starting infield whether Frazier was signed or not.  There are valid arguments to be made against signing Frazier, IMO, but claiming Westburg was going to play everyday in Baltimore to start the year and Eovaldi is at equal cost aren't among them.  I do believe the plan is for Westburg to be playing everyday in Baltimore in 2024, and very likely at some point this year.  

One has to acknowledge Eovaldi's upside, but the obvious risk that comes with him is  also a weighty consideration.  Make your case, if you believe the Orioles should have made the leap and offered him big bucks and forfeited the Comp Round B pick, but don't pretend that the cost was something less than what it was.  Maybe he will pan out for the Rangers, but I'm personally OK with the Orioles' passing on him.  There were other free agent SPs that I felt represented better and more realistic targets for Baltimore.  I do find it a bit odd that you champion spending so much to sign Eovaldi, yet elsewhere portray Santander as being a huge injury risk.  The two positions do not seem congruous.

I think CoC was right.  The O's probably want 7 years of Westburg so he will begin the season at Norfolk.  

But he is probably in the majors by May 1st.

Edited January 8, 2023 by wildcard

[Number5]

29 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

I didn’t pretend that. Your misinterpretation of my post is your problem, not mine

 

Interpretation?  There's nothing to interpret.  You said the cost was equal.  It clearly isn't.  I understood what you said just fine.  It was simply wrong.  Rather than admit it, you just keep on digging that hole.  I'm done here.

[Sports Guy]

11 minutes ago, Number5 said:

Interpretation?  There's nothing to interpret.  You said the cost was equal.  It clearly isn't.  I understood what you said just fine.  It was simply wrong.  Rather than admit it, you just keep on digging that hole.  I'm done here.

You should be done..always quit when you are behind.  
 

And btw, the long term cost means very little with a team with no payroll obligations long term. Losing the pick is relatively meaningless in a year you should be trying to win a title.

On top of that, the long term good of your franchise is better with Westburg getting the experience he needs.

Also, you are likely to sign a pitcher with the same or less upside of Eovaldi heading into the 2024 season, so you will spend similar money anyway.

So, you are better this year and you are better long term. The total money, for the totality, may be more but that’s relatively meaningless and it was definitely meaningless with the point of my original post.  

[Frobby]

3 hours ago, wildcard said:

I think CoC was right.  The O's probably want 7 years of Westburg so he will begin the season at Norfolk.  

But he is probably in the majors by May 1st.

I don’t think Westburg is the kind of player where you worry about service time.   If he’s not on the OD roster, it’s because there are other players they think fit the team’s needs better.  And when he gets called up will depend on how those players do, who gets hurt, and how Westburg is playing at Norfolk.   Ortiz is also a factor, since he’s on the 40-man roster and Westburg isn’t.   

[Can_of_corn]

6 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I don’t think Westburg is the kind of player where you worry about service time.   If he’s not on the OD roster, it’s because there are other players they think fit the team’s needs better.  And when he gets called up will depend on how those players do, who gets hurt, and how Westburg is playing at Norfolk.   Ortiz is also a factor, since he’s on the 40-man roster and Westburg isn’t.   

I don't think Mountcastle was either and yet I think Elias manipulated his.

[Sports Guy]

2 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I don't think Mountcastle was either and yet I think Elias manipulated his.

And now he wants to bring in someone to take away his playing time. Wonder if he will learn that lesson or not?

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

And now he wants to bring in someone to take away his playing time. Wonder if he will learn that lesson or not?

Bet he learned the Adley lesson.

That was a costly one.

[RZNJ]

42 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Bet he learned the Adley lesson.

That was a costly one.

What did it cost him?