Kostka: Os need to follow a different path

[sevastras]

16 hours ago, SemperFi said:

Sure, that's the fun and agnst of it.  I let my ex wife have the pressure of making many decisions but I certainly reserved the right to criticize!!

Maybe you should have taken a more active role since you weren’t a fan but a co-GM.  

[Sports Guy]

7 hours ago, Aristotelian said:

He had less than 200 AB in AAA. There was no way he was coming up earlier than September.

We don't know what Elias would have done had Adley been healthy in April. He could have gone for ROY and the service time, we just don't know. I do think he would have started Adley whenever he thought he had the best chance of getting the extra year. Either way, worth a shot when the upside is an extra 5 WAR season and the downside is...nothing. 

He was ready. He was one of the most advanced players drafted in recent memory and it had been 2 years since he was out of college. You can make the argument he never needed 1 game in the minors. 
 

He should have been up and he should have gotten his feet wet and valuable experience in 2021. The only reason he wasn’t brought up was service time manipulation. It had nothing to do with with whether or not he was “ready”.

[Aristotelian]

6 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

He was ready. He was one of the most advanced players drafted in recent memory and it had been 2 years since he was out of college. You can make the argument he never needed 1 game in the minors. 
 

He should have been up and he should have gotten his feet wet and valuable experience in 2021. The only reason he wasn’t brought up was service time manipulation. It had nothing to do with with whether or not he was “ready”.

I agree he was ready and it would have been manipulation. Also would have been a terrible decision to bring up for no reason other than "valuable experience"

[Sports Guy]

28 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

I agree he was ready and it would have been manipulation. Also would have been a terrible decision to bring up for no reason other than "valuable experience"

Well, if you put forth a goal of actually trying to win in 2022 instead of tanking, it would make perfect sense. You know, because winning is supposed to be what is trying to be accomplished.

[foxfield]

12 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

Has nothing to do with him getting injured.

He should have been up at the end of 2021 because he deserved to be up and the experience would aid in his development.

Elias held him back to leave open the option to game his clock in 2022.  You can't tell me the 40 man slot was an actual concern.

How cool would it have been if the period of adjustment he had in 2022 had happened at the end of 2021? 

I don't disagree, but you make it sound like a mistake.  I think it's a gamble that didn't work.  But at the end of the day, the O's ended up in about the same spot.  Bringing him up early could have worked better...because he might have done well enough to win ROY.  And the whole season may have landed the O's in the playoffs.

But those two things are not definite.  The O's could have just missed the playoffs and AR still could have finished second.  And if that were the case, the O's end up in the same spot for control no?  

It is effectively punishing the O's for not brining him up earlier by making the result the same.

I admit I may not understand the full rule on that but that is how it looks to me.

And again, I agree he should have come up at the end of 21.  But you do not really think AR being injured was real and he should have been on the opening roster for 22?

[Aristotelian]

2 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

Well, if you put forth a goal of actually trying to win in 2022 instead of tanking, it would make perfect sense. You know, because winning is supposed to be what is trying to be accomplished.

You are assuming Elias wasn't planning to have Adley start on opening day before he got hurt. It's possible the plan was to go for the extra service time through ROY and get the both/and of the best team and extra service time.

Even if Adley was held back for a couple weeks I would not have been opposed to that. Even knowing how close we got to a wild card last year I'd rather get Adley for another full year in '29 and more leverage to extend him vs maybe 10 more games in '22. But we can agree to disagree on that. Go ahead, you can have the last word.

 

[Sports Guy]

12 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

You are assuming Elias wasn't planning to have Adley start on opening day before he got hurt. It's possible the plan was to go for the extra service time through ROY and get the both/and of the best team and extra service time.

Even if Adley was held back for a couple weeks I would not have been opposed to that. Even knowing how close we got to a wild card last year I'd rather get Adley for another full year in '29 and more leverage to extend him vs maybe 10 more games in '22. But we can agree to disagree on that. Go ahead, you can have the last word.

 

Actually, you are completely wrong about what I’m assuming.  I fully believe Elias was going to put him on the OD roster..which makes it even more infuriating.

And I would have held out Adley at the beginning of this year to get the extra year too because at that point, it’s just a few weeks.

But he should have been up in 2021 and it wouldn’t have come to that decision.

[LTO's]

1 minute ago, Sports Guy said:

Actually, you are completely wrong about what I’m assuming.  I fully believe Elias was going to put him on the OD roster..which makes it even more infuriating.

And I would have held out Adley at the beginning of this year to get the extra year too because at that point, it’s just a few weeks.

But he should have been up in 2021 and it wouldn’t have come to that decision.

So Adley debuts in Sept of 2021, gets injured in Spring Training in 2022 and nothing is different. There's nothing about this situation that should be infuriating anybody. It's stupid. 

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, LTO's said:

So Adley debuts in Sept of 2021, gets injured in Spring Training in 2022 and nothing is different. There's nothing about this situation that should be infuriating anybody. It's stupid. 

They get a draft pick.

 

[Sports Guy]

17 minutes ago, LTO's said:

So Adley debuts in Sept of 2021, gets injured in Spring Training in 2022 and nothing is different. There's nothing about this situation that should be infuriating anybody. It's stupid. 

What’s stupid is you not reading and just deciding to troll.  I said to bring him up in July and have said so for going on 2 years now.

Edited January 9, 2023 by Sports Guy

[Sports Guy]

15 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

They get a draft pick.

 

When all you do is fanboy it up and question nothing, facts and common sense don’t mean anything.  It’s just “what did the Os do and whatever that was, is the right decision”.

[RZNJ]

3 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

When all you do is fanboy it up and question nothing, facts and common sense don’t mean anything.  It’s just “what did the Os do and whatever that was, is the right decision”.

Everything isn't smart or stupid.  Everything is ZERO or TEN.  Everything isn't black and white.   Except in your world.   There are logical reasons why Elias didn't call up Rutschman in 2021.   It's as simple as that.

[BRobinsonfan]

On 1/6/2023 at 6:07 PM, owknows said:

The criteria for "picking talent off the waiver wire" was simply that the players picked play 50 games or pitched 50 innings of MLB ball for your team.

The degree to which they did or did not stink on ice is not factored in.

The O's have picked some shiny things off the scrap heap... but also a few brown squishy ones.

True enough... but trades sometimes yield "brown squishy" results too.   To wit:  The White Sox gave up Fernando Tatis Jr. to get James Shields from the Padres.   

 

[LTO's]

7 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

What’s stupid is you not reading and just deciding to troll.  I said to bring him up in July and have said so for going on 2 years now.

So you bring him up in July and this is supposed to make some sort of difference to the team last year and going forward? He got injured in ST. Unless in your alternate reality he doesn't get hurt then literally nothing changes. 

[Frobby]

3 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

Well, if you put forth a goal of actually trying to win in 2022 instead of tanking, it would make perfect sense. You know, because winning is supposed to be what is trying to be accomplished.

I don’t think the O’s ever were planning to tank in 2022, depending on your definition of that term.  I think the expectation was that they had a shot at being a 70ish-win team.   They outperformed expectations, but I don’t think many people were thinking that 2022 was a year in which we’d get a top 3 draft pick.  

Anyway, it occurs to me that if they’d brought Adley up sometime in 2021, and they’d won a few additional games, we wouldn’t have had the 1-1 pick and the largest draft pool last year.  So, I doubt Elias regrets his decision not to have Adley debut in 2021, even though he lost the opportunity for an extra pick in 2023.

One thing I will say: In 2021, I was advocating that the O’s might feel Adley needed more experience before reaching the majors.   Having watched him in 2022, I now realize that Adley definitely could have played part of 2021 in Baltimore and been at least decent, and a clear upgrade over Severino, Wynns and the others who got some time at C for the O’s that year.  So, I agree the 2021 decisions on Adley were based on service time considerations, not his readiness for MLB.