Hyde on the Infield plans

[Aristotelian]

31 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

We have better options..if guys are healthy and performing.

If not, you may need Mateo to play elsewhere.

It’s just an insurance policy. Not saying he has to play in regular season games in other positions but to not be ready as a just in case, when you preach versatility all the time?

That surprises me. I think it also tells you they really doubt his bat anywhere else on the diamond.

I don't see any way Mateo becomes a primary 2B or 3B, even with injuries. At 2B you have Frazier/Urias/Westburg/Norby/Vavra. His most likely path to regular AB's would be an injury to Urias to open up 3B, but then you slide Gunnar over. 

The CF idea was somewhat interesting, but this also tells me they have no plan on trading Mullins. 

[Sports Guy]

2 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

I don't see any way Mateo becomes a primary 2B or 3B, even with injuries. At 2B you have Frazier/Urias/Westburg/Norby/Vavra. His most likely path to regular AB's would be an injury to Urias to open up 3B, but then you slide Gunnar over. 

The CF idea was somewhat interesting, but this also tells me they have no plan on trading Mullins. 

No one said primary. But fill in?  Sure that’s possible.

[Spy Fox]

45 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

We have better options..if guys are healthy and performing.

If not, you may need Mateo to play elsewhere.

It’s just an insurance policy. Not saying he has to play in regular season games in other positions but to not be ready as a just in case, when you preach versatility all the time?

That surprises me. I think it also tells you they really doubt his bat anywhere else on the diamond.

I think you're overstating the way they've talked about versatility in order to make it seem like there's a contradiction here when there's really not. 

Valuing versatility, and encouraging some players to be versatile in what spot they play on the diamond, isn't the same as wanting every single player to be as versatile as possible. 

And since Mateo already excels the highest value position in the field (besides C), just him playing at SS can in a sense increase your "versatility" by allowing other weaker defenders to not have to play SS and therefore play various positions they're better at.

[Sports Guy]

3 minutes ago, Spy Fox said:

I think you're overstating the way they've talked about versatility in order to make it seem like there's a contradiction here when there's really not. 

Valuing versatility, and encouraging some players to be versatile in what spot they play on the diamond, isn't the same as wanting every single player to be as versatile as possible. 

And since Mateo already excels the highest value position in the field (besides C), just him playing at SS can in a sense increase your "versatility" by allowing other weaker defenders to not have to play SS and therefore play various positions they're better at.

I’m not overstating anything. It has been a constant thing repeated over and over again by both Hyde and Elias.

Mullins and Mountcastle are the only 2 players on the team that aren’t going to be asked to play more than 1 fielding position, whether it’s in game, practice, etc…I understand both of those guys especially since Mullins could handle a COF spot and they know that.

Mateo being in that group surprises me.

[eddie83]

I’m sure someone posted it but I know Hyde said Westburg was moving around all over infield except 1st.  

[sportsfan8703]

I read into this that Gunnar is going to be playing some SS too. Mateo is going to have to hit. Gunnar is Mateo’s obvious competition, but then you have Westburg and Ortiz real close. Holliday on the way. He will not be Odor 2.0. We’re too talented. 

[HakunaSakata]

3 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

I’m surprised they aren’t moving Mateo around some, especially in the OF.

Mateo simply isn't a good enough offensive player to justify playing anywhere other than SS. If things break right for this team/offense, Mateo will only get around 300 ABs this season IMO. 

[NCRaven]

20 minutes ago, HakunaSakata said:

Mateo simply isn't a good enough offensive player to justify playing anywhere other than SS. If things break right for this team/offense, Mateo will only get around 300 ABs this season IMO. 

If Mateo can play an above average 2B, 3B and CF, his ability to pinch run and be a late inning defensive replacement would certainly provide utility value.  The lack of a bat would not be as serious in that role.  As an everyday SS, the bat becomes a more serious issue.  If Ortiz continues to develop like he did last year, I think that utility player is Mateo's only role on this team.

[HakunaSakata]

14 minutes ago, NCRaven said:

If Mateo can play an above average 2B, 3B and CF, his ability to pinch run and be a late inning defensive replacement would certainly provide utility value.  The lack of a bat would not be as serious in that role.  As an everyday SS, the bat becomes a more serious issue.  If Ortiz continues to develop like he did last year, I think that utility player is Mateo's only role on this team.

That approach would be perfectly fine, but I read the other post as implying the team should be looking for ways to start him at other positions. I think the only reason Mateo is even being considered a part time starter at SS is because of his glove. If you take that variable away and move him to a position where defense is less of a concern (even if he excels, which isn't a given) then I don't see how you can justify giving him regular ABs. Versatility is great, but I think it's a bigger advantage in terms of finding ways to get good bats in the lineup, not so much in trying to convert a defensive specialist to another position. 

[Ripken]

As well as he plays SS, I'm sure they feel he could fill in anywhere in the infield if necessary.  However, with our depth, it very likely won't become necessary so he should just stick to SS.  Beyond that, what they're really saying is, he's not going to play any OF, where some of us think he might be a good centerfielder with that elite speed.  Whatever.  Bottom line, the guy can't hit and, if he actually starts to, it's a good problem.

[Spy Fox]

4 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

I’m not overstating anything. It has been a constant thing repeated over and over again by both Hyde and Elias.

Mullins and Mountcastle are the only 2 players on the team that aren’t going to be asked to play more than 1 fielding position, whether it’s in game, practice, etc…I understand both of those guys especially since Mullins could handle a COF spot and they know that.

Mateo being in that group surprises me.

I don't think it works to use hyperbole phrases like "constant" and "over and over again" to prove something isn't being overstated. Hyde and Elias have definitely said versatility is a goal and applied that goal to certain players, but I don't expect them to apply every team goal equally to all players.

To me the main reason to try Mateo at different positions would be if they wanted to cement Gunnar as a SS and have him get as much practice there as possible. But with Mateo, Ortiz, and eventually Holliday around, they'll probably keep Gunnar more as a SS-capable guy who is primarily a 3b. It makes sense to me that Mateo would be there with Mountcastle/Mullins as mainly one-position guys, for reasons mostly parallel to Mullins but in the IF. 

Edited February 27, 2023 by Spy Fox

[HandsomeQuack]

Like others have said, Mateo does not have value outside of SS. There is no situation or defensive alignment where he should be anywhere other than SS or bench. I don't see what the point would be of him working out anywhere else.

[tntoriole]

1 hour ago, HakunaSakata said:

That approach would be perfectly fine, but I read the other post as implying the team should be looking for ways to start him at other positions. I think the only reason Mateo is even being considered a part time starter at SS is because of his glove. If you take that variable away and move him to a position where defense is less of a concern (even if he excels, which isn't a given) then I don't see how you can justify giving him regular ABs. Versatility is great, but I think it's a bigger advantage in terms of finding ways to get good bats in the lineup, not so much in trying to convert a defensive specialist to another position. 

I agree.  Mateo may be one of the best defensive SSs playing the position today.  If he can improve his offense even to average, he will be a regular at SS and his trade value skyrockets. 
He is not Ryan Flaherty or Melvin Mora.  He cannot hit well enough and they were not elite SSs  (Belanger was not moved around to other positions either) Only at SS can the defense value at an elite level outweigh a paltry offensive contribution. 

[Just Regular]

If 3B Urias, SS Gunnar, 2B Frazier is the first string, it will be interesting to watch if Mateo routinely becomes a defensive sub in games we are winning late.     And who goes where, and who to bench in that switch.

[MijiT88]

5 minutes ago, Just Regular said:

If 3B Urias, SS Gunnar, 2B Frazier is the first string, it will be interesting to watch if Mateo routinely becomes a defensive sub in games we are winning late.     And who goes where, and who to bench in that switch.

3B Gunnar, 2B Frazier/Urias and SS Mateo is most likely what we see. Urias wont be an everyday player, I think most people here assume that he will. I just don't see how he becomes more than utility unless a trade happens. Which if a SS gets hurt it just may be the spark for a team to go after Mateo