Westburg is near ready

[wildcard]

Elias has shifted into win mode.  He said we promote our top prospects when they are ready and mentioned Adley and Gunnar.

Westburg had a 869 OPS at Norfolk and an 878 OPS in ST.   The only thing that is keeping him off the major league roster is 17 days of service time.   So if he continues to hit for the first  2+ weeks at AAA he is probably  called up to play 2B.

Do I think they bench Frazier?   Yes I do.    Frazier is a league average 2nd baseman if you look at his career numbers.   Westburg's 800+  OPS projection is above average.  His defense at 2B probably matches Frazier's.  He will be an upgrade in the near future.   8M will not stand in Elias way if the possibility of winning is involved IMO.

Who goes to make room for Westburg?   Guys with options could be shifted to AAA.    We have just seen Santander become the backup 1B when he  is in not playing RF/DH.    We could see Mateo become the backup CF when he is not at SS.   McKenna has an option. Vavra also has an option.  

A year ago we saw Elias trade Scott and Sulser on April 3rd because he believed he had better relievers.   Frazier and Urias should take note of Westburg's progress.  That trade may be harder to do than shifting players to AAA.

Beware.  The O's are in win mode.  That means putting the best players on the field.   Comments from Elias makes me think he is serious about that.

Edited March 28, 2023 by wildcard

[eddie83]

You still have both Mateo and Urias before Frazier was added. Both were regulars last year.  
 

If Elias thought Westburg was as good defensively as Frazier and was 800+ OPS lock then why did he sign Frazier? 
 

Westburg may become all of these things but it’s not happening a couple of weeks into the season. 

[Roll Tide]

2 minutes ago, eddie83 said:

You still have both Mateo and Urias before Frazier was added. Both were regulars last year.  
 

If Elias thought Westburg was as good defensively as Frazier and was 800+ OPS lock then why did he sign Frazier? 
 

Westburg may become all of these things but it’s not happening a couple of weeks into the season. 

Seriously, he spent 8 million for 17 days as a regular? @wildcardis kidding himself unless Elias has a deal in place to purge one off the roster. And I seriously doubt that as we watched his refusal to dump the much cheaper Odor last year.

[eddie83]

Just now, Roll Tide said:

Seriously, he spent 8 million for 17 days as a regular? @wildcardis kidding himself unless Elias has a deal in place to purge one off the roster. And I seriously doubt that as we watched his refusal to dump the much cheaper Odor last year.

I agree with him from the standpoint he will pull the plug on Frazier if needed but no way that early on. 

I think the club is in a good spot here. Plenty of options. The situation will take care of itself. Requires patience. 

[Roll Tide]

1 minute ago, eddie83 said:

I agree with him from the standpoint he will pull the plug on Frazier if needed but no way that early on. 

I think the club is in a good spot here. Plenty of options. The situation will take care of itself. Requires patience. 

I agree …. Except on their ability to dump players under Angelos. I think Frazier is here most if not all of the season. Many are going to hate this but as I mentioned, Davis was hung onto far too long and Odor who was by all account terrible hung on like a bad fungus. 

[eddie83]

Just now, Roll Tide said:

I agree …. Except on their ability to dump players under Angelos. I think Frazier is here most if not all of the season. Many are going to hate this but as I mentioned, Davis was hung onto far too long and Odor who was by all account terrible hung on like a bad fungus. 

When I say pull the plug on Frazier I’m not talking about him off the roster. I’m saying his at bats get limited. 

[maybenxtyr]

34 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Elias has shifted into win mode.  He said we promote our top prospects when they are ready and mentioned Adley and Gunnar.

Westburg had a 869 OPS at Norfolk and an 878 OPS in ST.   The only thing that is keeping him off the major league roster is 17 days of service time.   So if he continues to hit for the first  2+ weeks at AAA he is probably  called up to play 2B.

Do I think they bench Frazier?   Yes I do.    Frazier is a league average 2nd baseman if you look at his career numbers.   Westburg's 800+  OPS projection is above average.  His defense at 2B probably matches Frazier's.  He will be an upgrade in the near future.   8M will not stand in Elias way if the possibility of winning is involved IMO.

Who goes to make room for Westburg?   Guys with options could be shifted to AAA.    We have just seen Santander become the backup 1B when he  is in not playing RF/DH.    We could see Mateo become the backup CF when he is not at SS.   McKenna has an option. Vavra also has an option.  

A year ago we saw Elias trade Scott and Sulser on April 3rd because he believed he had better relievers.   Frazier and Urias should take note of Westburg's progress.  That trade may be harder to do than shifting players to AAA.

Beware.  The O's are in win mode.  That means putting the best players on the field.   Comments from Elias makes me think he is serious about that.

His comments may make you feel that way but his actions shouldn't.

 

For the thousandths time, they did not sign Frazier to not play. I agree that Mateo could potentially be a backup CF and McKenna could be optioned. That still leaves Henderson, Urias, Frazier, and Mateo looking for starts in the infield. 

 

There's just not enough playing time to justify bringing him up. If they do, they need to have him starting pretty much everyday.

 

[Orioles0615]

 

I don't believe anything Elias says anymore until I see actual action. 

[Sports Guy]

He was ready in August.

[Moose Milligan]

There's no way he's pulling the plug on 8 million Frazier when he didn't pull the plug on 700k Rougned Odor last year.  Odor doesn't bring the versatility (Frazier can stand around in the outfield, BFD) that Frazier does so he's going to be more inclined to make us suffer the entire season.

Frazier should have never been signed, Westburg should have had to battle it out in camp for the role.  But I agree with SG, he was ready late last year.

[wildcard]

My message is  "Wake Up" and understand what is happening now.

Elias as more information now.   A month more.

Elias just sent Grayson to AAA.  Why?  Because he had 5 starters that are better.   In SPRING TRAINING.    You think ST does not matter?   It mattered to Elias and Grayson.

A month ago Elias didn't know how Westburg would do in ST.  Now he does.  878 OPS.  

A month ago Elias didn't know how Frazier would do in ST.  Now he does.  597 OPS.

I would think that Frazier would want to impress his new manager, coaches and teammates.  And that he would know he is competing for playing time at 2nd base with Urias, Vavra, Westburg and Ortiz.   597 is not going to cut it.

 ST mattered to Elias and Grayson about starting.   Why would it not matter about 2nd base?

I think Frazier has 17 days to turn it around.   Do I know its 17 days?  No.  It could be 30 days.  But Elias knows that last year the team went 7-14 in April.  And he does not want that to happen again.

Elias is in win mode.   He will play his best players.  And he is going to pay the 8m whether Frazier starts a lot or a little.   The important thing is to win.

 

Edited March 28, 2023 by wildcard

[forphase1]

I certainly don't disagree that Westburg is ready.  But I do disagree that we will see him up soon as we stupidly have Frazier on the roster, and with 8M tied up in him, he isn't going to be cut or even be riding on the bench much.  It's foolish and headscratching, but it is what it is at this point.  Better guys will be stuck in the minors (Westburg, Ortiz) because we have the MLB roster clogged with guys that should have never been signed (Frazier) or should be moved IMO (Mateo).  

[wildcard]

3 hours ago, Orioles0615 said:

 

I don't believe anything Elias says anymore until I see actual action. 

Actions:  Grayson sent to AAA.

[Sports Guy]

3 minutes ago, wildcard said:

My message is  "Wake Up" and understand what is happening now

Elias as more information now.   A month more.

Elias just sent Grayson to AAA.  Why?  Because he had 5 starters that are better.   In SPRING TRAINING.    You think ST does not matter?   It mattered to Elias and Grayson.

A month ago Elias didn't know how Westburg would do in ST.  Now he does.  878 OPS.  

A month ago Elias didn't know how Frazier would do in ST.  Now he does.  597 OPS.

I would think that Frazier would want to impress his new manager, coaches and teammates.  And that he would know he is competing for playing time at 2nd base with Urias, Vavra, Westburg and Ortiz.   597 is not going to cut it.

 ST mattered to Elias and Grayson about starting.   Why would it not matter about 2nd base?

I think Frazier has 17 days to turn it around.   Do I know its 17 days?  No.  It could be 30 days.  But Elias knows that last year the team went 7-14 in April.  And he does not want that to happen again.

Elias is in win mode.   He will play his best players.  And he is going to pay the 8m whether Frazier starts a lot or a little.   The important thing is to win.

 

Your continued overrating of ST continues to amaze me. 

[Sports Guy]

3 minutes ago, forphase1 said:

I certainly don't disagree that Westburg is ready.  But I do disagree that we will see him up soon as we stupidly have Frazier on the roster, and with 8M tied up in him, he isn't going to be cut or even be riding on the bench much.  It's foolish and headscratching, but it is what it is at this point.  Better guys will be stuck in the minors (Westburg, Ortiz) because we have the MLB roster clogged with guys that should have never been signed (Frazier) or should be moved IMO (Mateo).  

Here is the thing. It’s possible Westburg is up soon. They move him between second and third (Gunnar plays SS). He plays 3-5 times a week up here.

Thats possible.

However, if that happens, Frazier is still taking at bats from Stowers, Hays and Ortiz. The Frazier move doesn’t just impact Westburg. He impacts so many players.