It feels like the Orioles are not quite sure what to do with themselves

[Sanity Check]

4 minutes ago, waroriole said:

Cordero or Lester or OHearn. They’re not important pieces and it doesn’t matter if they rot away on the bench. 

Stowers ended the season last year on the major league team.  If one of those guys you mention was on the roster over Stowers to start the year, do you not think there would be 40 page thread on here calling for Elias's head.....again?? 

Would you really have chosen one of those guys over Stowers, or is your issue more with how they didn't utilize Stowers?  If it's the latter, then I agree with you.

I'm sure they told Stowers to go get some regular at bats, get in a groove, and we'll get you back up here to play more...but they need to let one of the other guys go, which it tough when they're not hitting.....so then, send one of them down, or through waivers, or whatever....just get them out of the way.

[Bemorewins]

17 minutes ago, DirtyBird said:

Nobody is giving up a quality starter for any prospects outside of our untouchables (Grayson, Gunnar, Holliday) prior to the start of a season. Every team wants to go into the season with hope of contending.

This is why I believe the plan was to stay in contention up until the trade deadline and make the big move at that point.

I respect your opinion but don’t necessarily agree. Plenty of trades have happened in the offseason. And when it comes to acquiring serious talent without giving up cornerstone pieces look at what we gave away Manny for or what the RedSox got for Mookie Betts or what the Tigers got for Verlander (just to name a few). 
 

We could have and still could give a team 2/3 top 100 prospects w/o giving Grayson, Gunnar, or Holiday and get a star level player. 
 

We need serious pitching if we are going to win at the highest level. Hoping for Grayson to be an immediate ace AND for Bradish to be a stopper as well is foolish and unrealistic in my opinion. And without a serious pitching upgrade how else are we planning to beat the Yanks, Jays, Rays, Guardians, Mariners, Astros? All those teams have significantly better pitching than us.

[Bemorewins]

21 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

This post is right on point for me. At some point you need to really lift off, and that means moving legitimate prospects for legitimate major league players so are you not seven deep in major league infielders. And where is our good hitting outfield prospect that can play plus defense defense? Cowser? He's found AAA hard so far. Haskins (4th OF type)? Kjerstad? They rightfully moved him to 1B mainly. Beavers? Fabian? 

I think Westburg needs to start playing a lot of LF and RF and honestly Norby does too or else you make a decision which one you will live with the glove with at 2B and he's your guy next year. Ortiz is already ready to play major league SS and is as good and maybe more consistent than Mateo.

I Ortiz is the perfect player to use in a package along with 3/4 other prospects to get a big time player who can help the major league team win.

He is a major league ready top 100 prospect with no place to play on our team. He has more value than Mateo and both are just place holders for Holiday. Not all of our guys are going to be able to stay. 
 

My hope is that this was the idea all along or else why we would be so dogmatic on an approach that valued drafting position players over pitchers? Where did we think the necessary pitchers were going to come from?

[HandsomeQuack]

5 minutes ago, Sanity Check said:

Would you really have chosen one of those guys over Stowers, or is your issue more with how they didn't utilize Stowers?  If it's the latter, then I agree with you.

Speaking for myself, it is odd that Vavra was getting ABs and corner OF starts over Stowers against RHP. But you are right, if the org views Vavra>Stowers vs RHP (which they clearly do), their only options were to let Stowers ride the bench with the big league club or let him get Triple-A reps and let an O'Hearn or Cordero occupy the last spot. Both of those scenarios are forum panic-inducing, although the former is less so. The real question is why they are seemingly bearish on Stowers...

But how long will they ride with three catchers, and who will come up when Bemboom gets sent down? The extra catcher was nice the other day when they were able to pinch-hit for McCann and keep Adley in the DH spot, but the third catcher is pointless when Adley is catching.

[Bemorewins]

20 minutes ago, Sanity Check said:

This is a great question, and I think the problem is that the guys who are on the major league team are not upgrading their trade value at all, and are not highly sought after by other teams.  Do I know this?  No.  Do I believe it?  Yes.  If those guys were outperforming and making themselves hot commodities, I have no doubt that Elias would be trading them to the highest bidders for pitching, and back-filling their positions with our talented pipeline.

Unfortunately, to make room for any of the pipeline right now, we just have to let guys go, or give them away.  I'm sure Elias is waiting/hoping these guys create a market for themselves by mid-year so he can make some deals.  Right now, that ain't happening.

Instead of doing that, why not trade the prospects with value for major league ready pieces that can help you win big? 
 

Mateo might now have great trade value. Fine, he can hold down shortstop until Holiday is ready. But why not trade Ortiz who is a top 100 major league ready shortstop with no place to play? You can package him with Norby or Westburg and Hall who all have prospect value. And even throw in a Urias.

We have a gluten of positional prospect riches and no elite major league pitching. Is it this hard to figure out?

[HandsomeQuack]

2 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

Mateo might now have great trade value. Fine, he can hold down shortstop until Holiday is ready. But why not trade Ortiz who is a top 100 major league ready shortstop with no place to play? You can package him with Norby or Westburg and Hall who all have prospect value. And even throw in a Urias.

I agree, but I see a possible reality where it's June or July and Mateo has a .260 OBP and has regressed defensively, and suddenly Ortiz is the SS that gives the team the best chance to win. Norby and Westburg seem much more blocked and therefore expendable.

[waroriole]

19 minutes ago, Sanity Check said:

Stowers ended the season last year on the major league team.  If one of those guys you mention was on the roster over Stowers to start the year, do you not think there would be 40 page thread on here calling for Elias's head.....again?? 

Would you really have chosen one of those guys over Stowers, or is your issue more with how they didn't utilize Stowers?  If it's the latter, then I agree with you.

I'm sure they told Stowers to go get some regular at bats, get in a groove, and we'll get you back up here to play more...but they need to let one of the other guys go, which it tough when they're not hitting.....so then, send one of them down, or through waivers, or whatever....just get them out of the way.

My issue is that they didn’t utilize Stowers. But, if they’re gonna argue that he needs to go to AAA and get ABs, my question is what has changed. How did you not know he wasn’t gonna start any games early on? It’s not like Hays and Santander have hit at all to justify keeping them in every day. 

[Bemorewins]

24 minutes ago, Ohfan67 said:

There are a lot of emotional posts and threads right now...we are fanatics after all. But when you step back just a little, it's clear that the 26th roster spot is pretty meaningless and the only top prospect that the Orioles have been unclear about in my mind is Grayson and Bradish's injury cleared that situation up. Stowers is not one of the Orioles elite prospects, but even he has not been jerked around...he got to get paid ML salary for 9 days and will now go play every day until needed. Adley and Gunnar are getting the elite prospect treatment...they are playing when promoted and Gunnar was promoted pretty aggressively. Unfortunately from an impatient fan perspective, the Orioles have made and are making moves that suggests they think they are a year or two behind where the fans want the team to be. And remember the Orioles are dealing with multiple pitcher injuries...and they love the Norfolk shuttle anyway. 

If All of our pitchers were healthy, who would you take in a playoff series the Yanks rotation when fully healthy or ours? What about us against the Guardians? The Mariners? Rays? Astros?
 

The only playoff caliber team that if fully healthy we might be able to compete with us the Jays. Maybe?

[ChuckS]

The biggest problem the organization faces right now, is that they are so committed to particular players being in the lineup everyday that's its going to take either injury or really poor performance to remove someone who is already entrenched as a starter.   That's not how you get better.  Almost guarantees mediocrity, when you are that inflexible. 

Goes without saying that we need to start trading some of the excess talent in the upper minors for positions of need, if there is no place for them on the big league roster. 

Edited April 10, 2023 by ChuckS

[Bemorewins]

1 minute ago, HandsomeQuack said:

I agree, but I see a possible reality where it's June or July and Mateo has a .260 OBP and has regressed defensively, and suddenly Ortiz is the SS that gives the team the best chance to win. Norby and Westburg seem much more blocked and therefore expendable.

Holiday will be here soon enough is my point. Either Mateo or Ortiz can go because both a placeholders for Holiday. We only need either to be serviceable for a year, maybe Year and a half? But what we need now and in the future is real frontline pitching.

[DirtyBird]

2 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

If All of our pitchers were healthy, who would you take in a playoff series the Yanks rotation when fully healthy or ours? What about us against the Guardians? The Mariners? Rays? Astros?
 

The only playoff caliber team that if fully healthy we might be able to compete with us the Jays. Maybe?

Who would you take in a series from 10 years ago?

Chris Tillman vs Max Scherzer

Wei-Yin Chen vs Justin Verlander

Bud Norris vs David Price

[interloper]

Today's lineup features a bunch of RH hitters against the reverse-splits lefty Sears. Aren't we supposed to be using the data now? 

[sportsfan8703]

Overreaction.  We should be 5-4 and that's with Bradish going down.  We're alright.  We didn't fold against the Yankees.  

[interloper]

2 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Overreaction.  We should be 5-4 and that's with Bradish going down.  We're alright.  We didn't fold against the Yankees.  

Lol, says the guy who posted for like 12 hours straight about the bullpen being totally screwed without Lopez.

Edited April 10, 2023 by interloper

[sportsfan8703]

Just now, interloper said:

Lol, says the guy who posted for like 12 hours straight about the bullpen being totally screwed without Lopez.

True.  The bullpen has a MR hole, but that's frustrating because the rest of the team is pretty damn good.  You can point out a particular flaw without saying the whole team is screwed.