What do you think the goal of this season should be: win or develop?

[geschinger]

7 minutes ago, tntoriole said:

Questions posed like this are not how I think. The goal for all teams is to win and to develop. 
If adding a player from outside or bringing up a player or both leads to winning, then the process will work for both purposes. 

The much more challenging question is do you mortgage the future to marginally increase the odds of winning in 2023?  Do you trade a top 100 prospect for a player you think may put you over the top in 2023 only to turn around and realize that not only did you not win a chip, you just traded many years of high-level production for a 2 month rental?  The Larry Anderson for Jeff Bagwell dilemma.

[AnythingO's]

1 hour ago, Bemorewins said:

Hyde will do whatever ME tells him. That’s how he has kept his job for so long, despite only 1 barely winning season before this one.

That's the thing IMO, ME and Sigbot give him data, input, suggestions but Hyde makes the lineup decisions. Some like Adley, Hays, Mullins are obvious, maybe some matchups vs lefties, but others are on Hyde. I refuse to believe the Sigbot says put Stowers in LF and Vavra in RF, or McCann at DH, or O'Hearn and Frazier in RF. That is Hyde trying to keep everyone happy and play his gut hunches. I don't believe ME is going to give Hyde any significant prospect like Cowser unless he is assured by Hyde he will be properly deployed. Obviously, I have a bad case of Hyde heartburn so I admit my bias.

[Billy F-Face3]

If I'm being sincerely honest, my personal opinion is that we might be at least 1 season away from being World Series Champion contenders (winning it all) due to the fact some of the younger guys (like Gunnar and Grayson) coming up and still requiring some more Major League experience to fully grow into their potential... As well as become accustomed to one position on the field. (They don't even know where they want to play Ortiz or Westburg. For all we know they might have already made the decision to trade Westburg with that being the reason he hasn't been added to the 40 man roster.)

I think the young guys will need some seasoning, and they'll probably also look to add a #1 pitcher by next season along with another top quality RBI bat. Once that happens then this team is truly a top contender to win the World Series.

As good as they are now, there are still growing pains happening and a number of young players to probably go through it. Even Adley has had a few rare hiccups for short periods of time on rare occasions. (Specifically on defense.)

Players are only human and repetition is the best way to improve and become consistent at any given level.

The Front Office is being conservative with how they groom the graduating prospects. They don't want a MLB team loaded with rookies. And based on what we've seen, they have good reason to view it that way.

[Bemorewins]

7 minutes ago, AnythingO's said:

That's the thing IMO, ME and Sigbot give him data, input, suggestions but Hyde makes the lineup decisions. Some like Adley, Hays, Mullins are obvious, maybe some matchups vs lefties, but others are on Hyde. I refuse to believe the Sigbot says put Stowers in LF and Vavra in RF, or McCann at DH, or O'Hearn and Frazier in RF. That is Hyde trying to keep everyone happy and play his gut hunches. I don't believe ME is going to give Hyde any significant prospect like Cowser unless he is assured by Hyde he will be properly deployed. Obviously, I have a bad case of Hyde heartburn so I admit my bias.

He will tell him if need be, play him everyday. There is no scenario where Hyde is benching/not playing the players that ME wants in there.

But fortunately I believe that Hyde is smart enough not to need ME to tell him to play Cowser or Gunnar or any other prospect of that ilk everyday. He won’t be benching Cowser (a top 30 prospect and a top 5 first round pick) for anyone like Lester, Varva or O’Hearn. Heck you can through Hicks into that equation/situation too. When Cowser comes up, like Gunnar and Grayson, he will be given every opportunity to play and succeed.

[Bemorewins]

6 minutes ago, Billy F-Face3 said:

If I'm being sincerely honest, my personal opinion is that we might be at least 1 season away from being World Series Champion contenders (winning it all) due to the fact some of the younger guys (like Gunnar and Grayson) coming up and still requiring some more Major League experience to fully grow into their potential... As well as become accustomed to one position on the field. (They don't even know where they want to play Ortiz or Westburg. For all we know they might have already made the decision to trade Westburg with that being the reason he hasn't been added to the 40 man roster.)

I think the young guys will need some seasoning, and they'll probably also look to add a #1 pitcher by next season along with another top quality RBI bat. Once that happens then this team is truly a top contender to win the World Series.

As good as they are now, there are still growing pains happening and a number of young players to probably go through it. Even Adley has had a few rare hiccups for short periods of time on rare occasions. (Specifically on defense.)

Players are only human and repetition is the best way to improve and become consistent at any given level.

The Front Office is being conservative with how they groom the graduating prospects. They don't want a MLB team loaded with rookies. And based on what we've seen, they have good reason to view it that way.

When and how do you foresee the bolded/underlined happening? If you are suggesting that we are going to obtain these type of pieces in F/A, my question to you is what has given you an indication that JA is even interested in winning, let alone spending the type of money that obtaining those pieces would take?

[oh-wee-ohs]

Westburg is interesting and strange to me. Granted he's obv unproven in the bigs. But he looks like that big MOO bat we are sorely lacking and need. 15 HRs already! Adjustment period needed. But, we have a dime a dozen of the same types of players ie patience, pitch recognition, naggy, hitter-ish types but Jordan seems to be separating himself as the consistent, power type. I don't understand why he would be the first / big farm chip for a trade. Infield is full / loaded but give him a ton of looks at 1b and look at moving Mayo (he's redundant if Jordan is what he looks like he is).

[Billy F-Face3]

2 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

When and how do you foresee the bolded/underlined happening? If you are suggesting that we are going to obtain these type of pieces in F/A, my question to you is what has given you an indication that JA is even interested in winning, let alone spending the type of money that obtaining those pieces would take?

It was reported that they pursued both Carlos Rodon and Chris Bassitt this off-season. They also went so far as to reconstruct the entire outlook of the stadium in left field with an attempt to attract better pitching free agents. Clearly that is something that is high on their priority list. Just because those players chose to sign elsewhere or the market ended up being more costly than was expected heading into the off-season, doesn't change the fact that it's a priority. And to be honest, Mike Elias and JA were correct in sticking to their guns of a reasonable offer (for the team) because most of those those pitchers who got the big money were either on the IL, or they haven't performed up to standards.

As for the seasoning, that only happens by consistently playing the rookie in the Major League level. They should keep Gunnar at 3B and not move him around. Same way they decided to keep Manny at 3B and not move him around. Manny blossomed as a player.

[Bemorewins]

5 minutes ago, oh-wee-ohs said:

Westburg is interesting and strange to me. Granted he's obv unproven in the bigs. But he looks like that big MOO bat we are sorely lacking and need. 15 HRs already! Adjustment period needed. But, we have a dime a dozen of the same types of players ie patience, pitch recognition, naggy, hitter-ish types but Jordan seems to be separating himself as the consistent, power type. I don't understand why he would be the first / big farm chip for a trade. Infield is full / loaded but give him a ton of looks at 1b and look at moving Mayo (he's redundant if Jordan is what he looks like he is).

If you aren’t willing to trade him, who are you willing to trade that has similar or more value? 
We need a serious starting pitching upgrade. We can’t continue a whole season into the postseason with 4 “5 and dive guys” and only one starter who can give any kind of consistent length. It’s too much stress on Bautista and Cano. And without them, we have no hope of any success down the stretch.

[Bemorewins]

2 minutes ago, Billy F-Face3 said:

It was reported that they pursued both Carlos Rodon and Chris Bassitt this off-season. They also went so far as to reconstruct the entire outlook of the stadium in left field with an attempt to attract better pitching free agents. Clearly that is something that is high on their priority list. Just because those players chose to sign elsewhere or the market ended up being more costly than was expected heading into the off-season, doesn't change the fact that it's a priority. And to be honest, Mike Elias and JA were correct in sticking to their guns of a reasonable offer (for the team) because most of those those pitchers who got the big money were either on the IL, or they haven't performed up to standards.

As for the seasoning, that only happens by consistently playing the rookie in the Major League level. They should keep Gunnar at 3B and not move him around. Same way they decided to keep Manny at 3B and not move him around. Manny blossomed as a player.

I’m not sure what your second paragraph has to do with what I said. I agree that they should and will give Gunnar consistent reps at 3B. 

As far as your first paragraph goes, the market will always bear what it bears. Good/great players will cost what they cost. You’re not going to get a discount on a good FA starter this offseason, next offseason, or any other. Rarely do you get an Eduardo Rodriguez to sign that type of deal and if you do, as you see in his current contract, there will be an opt-out so that he can go back out on the market if he outperforms the contract. 

ME may have wanted a Rodon or a Bassitt. But JA controls the purse strings and as I mentioned I have ZERO evidence that he is even interested in the team winning let alone in spending real money. I’m sorry but the “Great Wall of Baltimore” doesn’t prove anything regarding that. It proves to me that Elias saw it as a competitive advantage and a way to interest pitchers in joining the org. But like in most things, money talks.

[oh-wee-ohs]

23 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

If you aren’t willing to trade him, who are you willing to trade that has similar or more value? 
We need a serious starting pitching upgrade. We can’t continue a whole season into the postseason with 4 “5 and dive guys” and only one starter who can give any kind of consistent length. It’s too much stress on Bautista and Cano. And without them, we have no hope of any success down the stretch.

Mayo. He has nowhere to play on the big league club like Westburg. Mayo is believed to have that power bat. Kjerstad too I think. Dunno if I wanna part with kjerstad tho. Maybe it comes down to who the FO believes in more... Mayo or Westburg. It's just, for me, Westburg is showing it more right now but maybe Coby does the same thing 2nd half this year / 1st half next and it's moot. Glad I'm not Elias and Co.

[Bemorewins]

3 minutes ago, oh-wee-ohs said:

Mayo. He has nowhere to play on the big league club like Westburg. Mayo is believed to have that power bat. Kjerstad too I think. Dunno if I wanna part with kjerstad tho. Maybe it comes down to who the FO believes in more... Mayo or Westburg. It's just, for me, Westburg is showing it more right now but maybe Coby does the same thing 2nd half this year / 1st half next and it's moot. Glad I'm not Elias and Co.

Mayo does not have the value that Westburg has right now. Westburg is a borderline top 50 prospect, Mayo is much lower than that. As a matter of fact, he just cracked the top 100 on some list. 

I think we have to be realistic on what good starting pitching cost. We maybe can get a Stroman with a Mayo. Maybe? But if you want a Luzardo it may cost both. And if you want better like an Alcantara, obviously more. 

To be honest, I think we will be okay without Mayo and Westburg. If all the other guys are who we hope that can be and if we get a true #1 starter. 

I think even if Westburg does well and Ortiz and Cowser, combined with all the other you fly positional players; I think in that scenario come postseason time we will still be cooked. Because we don’t/won’t have the adequate pitching to get through 3 rounds in the American League.