The season is 40% over and the O’s are on pace for 102 wins…

[Sports Guy]

2 minutes ago, foxfield said:

Of course it is fair to doubt how far they will or can go.  There are very few players on this team with actual playoff experience.  This team could flourish down the stretch and gain steam...or it could falter.

But I will simply leave your idea above to the discretion of the readers here on the board and respectfully disagree.

The OP is about a general negativity in spite of 40% of the season complete.  I like to look at the fact that since Adley came last year the Orioles have played like one of the best teams in baseball.

Could they use stronger pitching?  Sure.

Could they use a MOO slugger?  Sure.

Could they use another strong arm in the pen?  Of course.

Do they need some of the guys here to improve?  You betcha.

Do they need to figure out how to integrate more youth to the big club?  Of course.

None of that changes what they have done and are doing.  Its a pretty sweet spot to be in...regardless of what is available at the deadline.  

And everything you say we could use is exactly what everyone is saying and yet you are acting like they are saying they compete. Lol. You can’t make this up.

[Sports Guy]

4 minutes ago, foxfield said:

In other words, this team cant compete in the playoffs as constructed. Gotcha.

I don’t think you understand what the word compete means.

They aren’t going to go out and lose 10-0 and be completely outclassed. That’s what it means to be non competitive.

Zero people are saying that. People are saying we need to improve upon the roster to maximize our chances of winning in October, something you clearly agree with but want to argue about it anyway.

 

Edited June 13, 2023 by Sports Guy

[ChuckS]

6 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

I think you are completely making this up, as I don’t recall one post where people have said they would be uncompetitive in the playoffs.

People doubt how far they will go as currently constructed and that is extremely fair to wonder but that is far different than saying they wouldn’t be competitive.

 

Our division is super competitive.  On top of that, the AL is superior to the NL.  I think most would agree they will likely not maintain that 102 win pace without making any significant additions to the roster.  We could have a good season (90 wins?) and still miss the playoffs or just eek into the last wild card spot, rather than getting home field advantage in a WC matchup.  The teams ahead of us and just behind us are not pretenders. 

I'm very happy with our record and performance to date, but there is potential to be even better by making some logical additions and subtractions and sending underperformers to the bench.  

[Moose Milligan]

I think this board is a better, more relaxed place when the team is completely awful, as counterintuitive as that may seem.  We all know what the team is, we all accept it, and we can all (mostly) agree on what needs to happen next.

I think this board becomes uptight and a bit more chaotic when the team is winning because we're not used to it and people stress out about it.  "Are we this good?  We're not this good.  We're barely winning games.  HYDE IS AWFUL AND WE'RE 15 GAMES ABOVE .500.  HOW COULD HYDE DO THAT?  Are we this good?  We're not this good.  Oh look, we lost two straight, the wheels are coming off," etc, etc.

When this team is bad, the vision is clearer (play the kids, draft well, develop well).  Now that we're good, people are a little more divided on what needs to happen next.  We can all agree that the rotation needs to be upgraded, but what prospects to trade?  There are varying disagreements on what needs to happen in the infield, although I think everyone wants to see Westburg and more of Ortiz.  

IMO, people just get WAY more uptight on here because they're waiting for the other shoe to drop.  I think in the back of everyone's minds, there's a 2005 collapse right around the corner and they're bracing themselves for impact.

20 minutes ago, foxfield said:

This board is full of posts saying the Orioles are not good enough to compete in the playoffs and those that say they may not even make the playoffs.  I am sure you have read them.

 

Edited June 13, 2023 by Moose Milligan

[Sports Guy]

2 minutes ago, ChuckS said:

Our division is super competitive.  On top of that, the AL is superior to the NL.  I think most would agree they will likely not maintain that 102 win pace without making any significant additions to the roster.  We could have a good season (90 wins?) and still miss the playoffs or just eek into the last wild card spot, rather than getting home field advantage in a WC matchup.  The teams ahead of us and just behind us are not pretenders. 

I'm very happy with our record and performance to date, but there is potential to be even better by making some logical additions and subtractions and sending underperformers to the bench.  

Exactly right. This is just common sense. It’s not bashing the team or saying anyone is doing a bad job or that the team sucks. It’s just about making them the best version they possibly can be. 
 

The record is fantastic but they were, I believe, 16-14 since early May heading into the KC series. Now, we beat them up, which is great but they may be the worst team in the sport. So, things have “slowed down” since the April start and changes need to be made.

I listened to an interview with the DBacks GM the other day. They are similar to us. Young team, great record, etc…but he said we have to get better to win later. Feels they need to at least one and maybe 2 starters because the rotation is young.  Feels they need another BP arm.

Does that mean he thinks his team stinks or can’t be competitive?  Of course not. He just wants to maximize their chances.

[Aristotelian]

Here here. It's not perfect. There are particular decisions we might not agree with and we can speculate on the reasons for them. Overall, Elias has succeeded in turning the team around. We have played winning baseball the last 1.5 years and we appear set up in a terrific position for the long haul. Yet it seems the majority of the posts are critical. Instead of trying to understand the strategies and tactics the immediate assumption is that Hyde is incompetent or Elias is being cheap. I know the ownership does not inspire confidence and critique is more interesting than cheerleading, but this should be a 1989/2012 type of moment. This is an exciting team that makes me want to watch every night. We have a talented roster and more coming. 

[Moose Milligan]

1 minute ago, Aristotelian said:

Here here. It's not perfect. There are particular decisions we might not agree with and we can speculate on the reasons for them. Overall, Elias has succeeded in turning the team around. We have played winning baseball the last 1.5 years and we appear set up in a terrific position for the long haul. Yet it seems the majority of the posts are critical. Instead of trying to understand the strategies and tactics the immediate assumption is that Hyde is incompetent or Elias is being cheap. I know the ownership does not inspire confidence and critique is more interesting than cheerleading, but this should be a 1989/2012 type of moment. This is an exciting team that makes me want to watch every night. We have a talented roster and more coming. 

The 1989/2012 moment was last year.

A lot of the posts are critical because that's the very nature of a sports message board.  Sitting here and agreeing with everything they do isn't fun, nor is it interesting.  

I think a lot of us understand the strategies, we just disagree with them from time to time.  But yes, a lot of people jump to the conclusion that Hyde is incompetent (for whatever reason, I think this is one of the sillier takes on here, but armchair managers are always right when something the real manager does goes wrong) and that Elias won't spend because the Angelos family won't let him.

[Sports Guy]

The Hyde stuff is nonsense. The owner stuff is real.

[Safelykept]

19 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

I don’t think you understand what the word compete means.

They aren’t going to go out and lose 10-0 and be completely outclassed. That’s what it means to be non competitive.

Zero people are saying that. People are saying we need to improve upon the roster to maximize our chances of winning in October, something you clearly agree with but want to argue about it anyway.

 

Every team needs to improve or will be looking to improve their roster.

[Orioles0615]

My issue is NY and Toronoto are up our butt and Houston and even Angels right behind us in the WC standings. 2-3 teams are going to fall eventually and when the AAAA guys go back to playing like AAAA players  I am worried they will be too infatued with them to cut them loose. You can only ride out the Tim Beckams and Alejandro de Aza's so far. 

 

Imagine we win 90 games but miss the playoffs like the Jays did a few years ago. At this point missing the playoffs is a huge dissapointment. 

Edited June 13, 2023 by Orioles0615

[Aristotelian]

1 minute ago, Moose Milligan said:

Elias won't spend because the Angelos family won't let him.

It's more than that. I have seen stuff like Elias makes moves solely to prove he is the "smartest guy in the room".  Then there is "Elias can draft but we don't know if he can evaluate major league talent." While I think "Elias won't spend because the family won't let him" is valid, that implies we should be mostly praising Elias within those constraints, but instead what I see is mostly second guessing.

Last year is an interesting point. We started out bad but got red hot around June 15. Still, at the trade deadline we were basically a .500 team with a 2% chance of making the playoffs. I don't think it is fair to compare '22 to '89 but you are right, we had higher expectations this year so now it seems more like Elias is just doing his job rather than doing well enough to deserve some credit. 

[deward]

25 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Exactly right. This is just common sense. It’s not bashing the team or saying anyone is doing a bad job or that the team sucks. It’s just about making them the best version they possibly can be. 
 

The record is fantastic but they were, I believe, 16-14 since early May heading into the KC series. Now, we beat them up, which is great but they may be the worst team in the sport. So, things have “slowed down” since the April start and changes need to be made.

I listened to an interview with the DBacks GM the other day. They are similar to us. Young team, great record, etc…but he said we have to get better to win later. Feels they need to at least one and maybe 2 starters because the rotation is young.  Feels they need another BP arm.

Does that mean he thinks his team stinks or can’t be competitive?  Of course not. He just wants to maximize their chances.

There are some changes I'd like to see, but they went 16-14 against a rough stretch of schedule against nothing but contenders (I know Cleveland is only a contender due to being in the AL Central, but still). Isn't holding serve against the other good teams and beating up on the KCs of the league what you want to see? They obviously weren't going to win 115 games.

 

[Jammer7]

The negativity is why I don’t get on here much these days. It is absolutely draining.

In fairness, I don’t think most here know how to feel about a winning team, at least not one with an even brighter future. The Buck/DD run for 5-6 years was always patchwork without much regard for the sustainability. We’ve recently gotten used to thinking about constantly replacing most of the roster, and replacing them with prospects who “might” be better. I do not think many here understand the growth process to building an actual solid major league player or pitcher and forming a winning team. We’re not used to building with a sustainable plan and seeing the guys on our MLB roster grow through adversity.

Its easy to point to Mateo, for instance, and say how crazy they must be to stand by him through his offensive struggles. The coaching staff obviously feels that Jorge has remaining upside, and to have a chance to get there, they have stood by him so far. Although I do think he is running out of chances, and deservedly so. The point is, the maturation of a major league player is a process. They have to have X amount of reps to learn. Mateo has never had everyday at bats until coming to Baltimore. They gave him an honest chance, and he might have run his course at this point, maybe. When coaches are seen as standing behind your players, that matters to guys. They all struggle. They have to know that they can struggle and learn, to get to the other side. Like Gunnar, for instance. Look at how he is seeming to turn a corner. It’s a different situation in many ways, but the potential payoff is worth it. If Mateo does somehow click and learn better swing decisions, he would be a star. It’s a process, a gamble in some ways, but one a team in the position the Orioles have been in has to go through for potential stars. 

That said, I have been one of Mateo’s biggest supporters since he arrived. I am just about ready to move on. He does not seem to have the maturity and aptitude to move forward. But no one can say Hyde did not have a ton of patience with him. The thing is, now we’ll get to read all of the “I told you so” posts. Yay! I can’t wait.

Its a fan site, I get it. But maybe take a deep breath and try to see the bigger picture before DFAing every player who has a slump. 

Edited June 13, 2023 by Jammer7

[emmett16]

This team is been fun to watch and I expect slow and continued improvement throughout the season.  There will be some talent infused and the kids will continue to improve.  I expect them to play better as the season moves along.   I imagine there will be some minor trades to bolster the roster.  A major trade isn’t out of the question, but I’m not expecting anything approaching blockbuster at this point.  Doesn’t seem to be their MO.  I think they continue to slowly and methodically improve the roster mostly internally with a couple outside additions.  

[Sports Guy]

2 minutes ago, deward said:

There are some changes I'd like to see, but they went 16-14 against a rough stretch of schedule against nothing but contenders (I know Cleveland is only a contender due to being in the AL Central, but still). Isn't holding serve against the other good teams and beating up on the KCs of the league what you want to see? They obviously weren't going to win 115 games.

 

Yea it is..but it goes to show you that against the better team, things are a lot closer and that is before you talk about the mental edge experienced playoff teams will have come October.

Again, zero people are saying this is a bad team just that they can and need to be upgraded in large part because they don’t have a large margin for error.