If the Mets continue to scuffle...

[Bemorewins]

4 minutes ago, ArtVanDelay said:

I don’t think that exists anymore. 

Oh I didn’t know. Thanks for the info!

Either, I wouldn’t either unless there was no one else better to acquire (given that they are not elite guys anymore) and unless the Mets eat a major portion of the salary. 

I guess that I may take Verlander before Scherzer if I had to choose one.

[Bemorewins]

7 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

ftfy

Yeah, you are right. I can’t see Angelos doing it to be honest. It would be almost like a 180 pivot from what he has done since being in control of the O’s. He has shown little to no interest in the O’s trying to compete for a championship or spending serious money. In all of his public comments and interviews, he talks about everything else but those two things.

[foxfield]

1 minute ago, Bemorewins said:

Yeah, you are right. I can’t see Angelos doing it to be honest. It would be almost like a 180 pivot from what he has done since being in control of the O’s. He has shown little to no interest in the O’s trying to compete for a championship or spending serious money. In all of his public comments and interviews, he talks about everything else but those two things.

At some point…ego will cause John Angelo’s to want that title his father never had. That won’t cause the Os to spend like the Mets or Padres, but I do think he is going to get greedy. Of course…he may prove me wrong. 
 

You could easily go broke betting on Orioles ownership to do the right thing…smartly. 

[Bemorewins]

3 minutes ago, foxfield said:

At some point…ego will cause John Angelo’s to want that title his father never had. That won’t cause the Os to spend like the Mets or Padres, but I do think he is going to get greedy. Of course…he may prove me wrong. 
 

You could easily go broke betting on Orioles ownership to do the right thing…smartly. 

I am not a trained psychologist, so I am uncomfortable and I knowledgeable about making a personality profile of Angelos, especially given I have never even met the man. 

I agree with you in that it appears to be greedy though, not greed for accolades or organizational success, but actually taking in as much cash as he can. From everything I observe and from all of his public comments, he does not appear to even be interested in whether or not the team wins/competes.

He appears to be into community/business development, his partnership with Governor Moore, and making as much money from the Orioles as he can while he is in charge.

[baltfan]

46 minutes ago, ArtVanDelay said:

Norby seems like an overpay considering Verlander’s salary for this year and next.  The prospect cost should be basically nothing unless the Mets are eating a huge portion of that salary. 

His pedigree will make it so a contender will be willing to pay something.  You think Rangers wouldn’t pay something?  You think the Angels would be out as they try to prove to Ohtani he should stay?

[Just Regular]

I do think sports science helps old great players get some extra time.    

The thing about Scherzer and Verlander at this point in their careers is its only about the Octobers, same as in tennis for a bunch of years now Djokovic, Nadal and Federer don't play full schedules but they are the most famous, and still the best for 8 weeks a year.

Its a fun meltdown to watch because Cohen's $350mm was supposed to give them 6-month extended Spring Training, and now they are really going to have to hustle if they can save it at all.

Rolling 30 days kind of outcomes....Scherzer's numbers still look top notch.     Verlander did have an Aces gonna Ace kind of game finally yesterday.

[Bemorewins]

29 minutes ago, baltfan said:

His pedigree will make it so a contender will be willing to pay something.  You think Rangers wouldn’t pay something?  You think the Angels would be out as they try to prove to Ohtani he should stay?

The Rangers have a legit farm system, the Angels do not. The Angels could I guess, be willing to take on the entire salary. But that will just be helping the Mets pay Ohtani's salary next year, as there is no way they can outbid the Mets for him (no team's owner has the type of deep pockets that Cohen has).

[Sports Guy]

Verlander’s drop in K rate and poor statcast nunbers are alarming.

 

https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/savant-player/justin-verlander-434378?stats=statcast-r-pitching-mlb

Now maybe there is something the Mets are doing/not doing and the Os could fix that but at his age, Verlander could become “just another pitcher” or fall off completely.

[Osornot]

14 hours ago, Moose Milligan said:

Picking up one of those guys is extremely tempting, but I'm not sure if I'd want either of them next year.  Even though it's only one season to carry that salary, I'm not worried about that amount of money...both of those guys have defied how a pitcher is supposed to age.  At some point, they're going to be ineffective and I don't want that happening to either one of them if they're on this team.  And even if one of them was great for us this year and next year, that only covers us going into 2025.  Elias has to figure out a way to get some legit top of the rotation guys who aren't in their late 30s, early 40s who can be a centerpiece for the rotation for the long haul.  Verlander/Scherzer aren't long term options, they're really nice shiny band-aids for a larger problem.

I know, I know, think about all of the wisdom Verlander could impart on a guy like G-Rod, blah blah blah, veteranosity, etc.  That stuff is nice but I don't know if it's worth giving up the prospects...depending, of course, on who those prospects are.

I'm not freaked out to give up some good prospects if the return makes sense.  But for a pitcher like Verlander or Scherzer who are at the end of their careers, I'm not so sure.  If we really were one SP away from getting over the hump, I might be more inclined...but, IMO, we need two SPs and some significant bullpen help to be a legit contender.  

Agree... but, I always wondered if there is a benefit to signing one of these TOR's to a significant 1-year contract.  Would it be worth the risk of getting the performance that could increase our odds without trading away the farm.  Now, the cost is significant but it is a one-year deal and we would not have to trade prospects. The loss is for what the draft comp picks rules are at a given time (do they change?). 

example, IF the draft pick comp has potentially less or relative value in how many prospects it would take in a trade.

Sign a Verlander for 1 year at $40M+ = short-term risk+ keep current prospect queue - loss of pick.  Obviously, with any more time to contract, i.e., 2 years,  added it changes the formula as the risk is much greater.  Agreeing with Moose I would not be thrilled with more than one year
 

[Sanity Check]

12 hours ago, Moose Milligan said:

This actually makes me think of Larry Andersen for Jeff Bagwell.  

Bud Norris for Johs Hader +

Doyle Alexander for John Smoltz

...granted, these are just pitcher exchanges.....