Mariners looking to trade pitching for hitting?

[bluedog]

6 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Not to mention, I would rather keep the better prospects that are cheaper, younger and will have a lot of team control.

There won’t be a “team WAR” drop off because of the increase in pitching.

Seattle’s OF production this year hasn’t been good and DH and 1st base hasn’t been that good either.

The “right now” production that Hays and/or Santander can bring them could be very valuable to them as they try to get back into the playoffs.

Makes total sense.

I think we want to move Santander, Urias, Frazier or Hayes to teams that are looking for proven ML bats, not prospects who may take months to acclimate (as both Adley and Gunnar did).

If the O's are going to keep their top hitting prospects and field a team that's all earning the minimum for the next 3 - 5 years, then freeing up even more cash by moving Arb eligible vets will give them the money to get the pitching they need in either FA or in trades where there's a salary dump involved.

Edited July 8, 2023 by bluedog

[cnmilton]

How about Emerson Hancock? What would it take to get him?  

[Frobby]

I seriously doubt we’d trade a starting OF at the deadline. I don’t think msny teams trade good starting position players in-season unless they’re in sell mode.  I think a move like that is more likely in the offseason.  

Now, I could see an infielder getting traded, just because the surplus is so apparent.  
 

[Sports Guy]

1 minute ago, Frobby said:

I seriously doubt we’d trade a starting OF at the deadline. I don’t think msny teams trade good starting position players in-season unless they’re in sell mode.  I think a move like that is more likely in the offseason.  

Now, I could see an infielder getting traded, just because the surplus is so apparent.  
 

This is true basically every year and it may end up being true this year but the possibility of this happening is, reportedly, much higher than you seem to think. This may be a “different” trading deadline than we have ever seen.

In other words, all previous “rules” do not apply.

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:

This is true basically every year and it may end up being true this year but the possibility of this happening is, reportedly, much higher than you seem to think. This may be a “different” trading deadline than we have ever seen.

In other words, all previous “rules” do not apply.

“Reportedly” by who?  I’ll believe it when I see it.

I want to add, there’s no substantive reason it couldn’t happen.  Veteran-for-veteran  trades among contending teams that shake up team chemistry mid-season happen frequently in the NBA.  But I’m hard  pressed to think of any trades of this type in MLB.

 

Edited July 9, 2023 by Frobby

[Roll Tide]

9 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

The rumors are that they have talked to the Cards and yes, they have some positional pieces that they can move but no one has more positional pieces than the Os.

Kirby is said to be off limits but Miller or Gilbert could be in play.

It’s a phone call you have to make.

I know you are focusing on the Mariners but There was speculation on the radio that the Cardinals are looking to deal guys like pending free agent Flaherty.

Edited July 9, 2023 by Roll Tide

[Can_of_corn]

4 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

I know you are focusing on the Mariners but There was speculation on the radio that the Cardinals are looking to deal guys like pending free agent Flaherty.

What I heard is that the Cardinals were looking to trade bats for controllable arms.

[Sports Guy]

12 minutes ago, Frobby said:

“Reportedly” by who?  I’ll believe it when I see it.

I want to add, there’s no substantive reason it couldn’t happen.  Veteran-for-veteran  trades among contending teams that shake up team chemistry mid-season happen frequently in the NBA.  But I’m hard  pressed to think of any trades of this type in MLB.

 

It makes way more sense to do it in baseball than any other sport.

And basically any reporter and person around the game has been talking for a month about buyer to buyer trades. I have posted many articles about it and talked about how even GMs around the game have talked about it being a real possibility this year.

[Roll Tide]

47 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

What I heard is that the Cardinals were looking to trade bats for controllable arms.

Meoli mentioned him and another Cardinals pending free agent SP.

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

Meoli mentioned him and another Cardinals pending free agent SP.

I wouldn't be surprised to find out the Cardinals aren't sure what direction they are going to go in.  They aren't used to this type of season.

[Bemorewins]

3 hours ago, bluedog said:

Makes total sense.

I think we want to move Santander, Urias, Frazier or Hayes to teams that are looking for proven ML bats, not prospects who may take months to acclimate (as both Adley and Gunnar did).

If the O's are going to keep their top hitting prospects and field a team that's all earning the minimum for the next 3 - 5 years, then freeing up even more cash by moving Arb eligible vets will give them the money to get the pitching they need in either FA or in trades where there's a salary dump involved.

Why does that “have” to be the goal in going cheap as possible? Shouldn’t the goal be to put the best team on the field to compete for championships?

[Filmstudy]

3 things about the arms Seattle may or may not truly be offering...

1.  They are pitchers.  So future controllable years have less value that hitters at similar ages due to the much higher risk of injury.

2.  While the controllable years and possibly the expected improvement are reasons to pull the trigger, none of them have been particularly dominant in 2023 despite solid WHIP numbers.  Miller is ERA+ of 102, Gilbert 106, Woo 100.  That's in part a function of Seattle being a good pitchers park for years now.

3.  None of them address the primary concern for the Orioles, which is the need for LHP to take advantage of OPACY configuration.

I deal with this all the time with twitter fans who suggest Ravens trades that include massive amounts of outgoing draft capital.  My response always is that you can't trade that away like party favors.  If I were Elias, I would not give a rats ass that the Orioles have "too many" position players and not enough starting pitching in terms of how I'm going to look at valuing the bounty of young position players they have to trade...each one MUST bring back full value.  If Ortiz/Norby/Prieto/Westburg/Cowser/Kjerstad/Mayo were with almost any other organization, they'd be labeled as untouchable.  The Orioles have the luxury to consider trading 1 or even 2 of them, but they can't afford to have their pocket picked.

[Roll Tide]

8 hours ago, Bemorewins said:

Why does that “have” to be the goal in going cheap as possible? Shouldn’t the goal be to put the best team on the field to compete for championships?

It’s just not the reality of MLB baseball for many teams any longer. Angelos has already told you the Orioles are a version of the Rays. That doesn’t meet the go all out to win it now program. They don’t want to shorten the competitive window with the core group by trading off chips, they aren’t going to be taking on gobs of salary, and they will likely move assets before they are low cost to acquire or hit free agency. They will have to be good at doing this part with lower position draft choices in order to refill the funnel. I don’t think any fan has to like the approach but it obviously works and it appears to be the direction they are going. Hopefully it means long term extensions for the select guys like Adley.

[bluedog]

9 hours ago, Bemorewins said:

Why does that “have” to be the goal in going cheap as possible? Shouldn’t the goal be to put the best team on the field to compete for championships?

I don't want them to go as cheap as possible. I want them to put the best team on the field while also having the money to add to that team in free agency and offer "franchise" players like Adley & Gunnar contract extensions.

I believe the O's can replace Mountcastle (entering arb), Mateo ($2M arb), Frazier ($8M) and Urias (entering arb) with Mayo, Westburg, Ortiz and Holliday and end up being both a better team AND a more cost effective one.

I also think that Cowser and Kjerstad would replace enough of the production we're getting from Hayes and Santandar to consider the possibility of trading them away for pitching. The $15M in 2024 expected salary you save by shipping out Hays and Santandar would contribute to the O's ability to sign a FA TOR starter.

If the trade market values some of our veterans higher than some of our prospects, then I'm not afraid of moving them in the right deal and replacing their production internally.

 

[Roll Tide]

14 hours ago, cnmilton said:

How about Emerson Hancock? What would it take to get him?  

He’s currently at AA with a 5.35 ERA and a 1.41 WHIP. He could had in a 1 for 1 with a number of our position player prospect if they don’t overvalue him or undervalue our guys.