Jump to content

Who is the best defensive SS? Gunnar, Ortiz or Holliday?


wildcard

Recommended Posts

6 hours ago, wildcard said:

The question is not would the keep Holliday down all 2024 if his bat was ready.   They probably would not.  The question is if Holliday's defense at SS is not has good as Gunnars will they move Holliday to 2B?

Why not?

I’m totally against any offense-neutral defensive alignment that doesn’t optimize the defense.  In other words, if Gunnar and Holliday are both in the lineup, the better shortstop plays shortstop.  

  • Upvote 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, wildcard said:

The question is not would the keep Holliday down all 2024 if his bat was ready.   They probably would not.  The question is if Holliday's defense at SS is not has good as Gunnars will they move Holliday to 2B?

If Holliday has to play 2B on a stacked roster/loaded infield, what's the issue? He gives us elite offensive production at the position and probably has a chance to enjoy making a few all-star teams.

I don't see the problem.

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

34 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Why not?

I’m totally against any offense-neutral defensive alignment that doesn’t optimize the defense.  In other words, if Gunnar and Holliday are both in the lineup, the better shortstop plays shortstop.  

 

this-pointing-finger.gif

 

 

100%

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

If Holliday has to play 2B on a stacked roster/loaded infield, what's the issue? He gives us elite offensive production at the position and probably has a chance to enjoy making a few all-star teams.

I don't see the problem.

There isn't a problem. I think some folks see the 1:1 pick and defer to the thinking that since the player was drafted at a certain position, they HAVE to stick there. We've already seen with Gunnar, JW and Ortiz that they will move players around who were drafted as SS so I am not sure why anyone believes that they won't do that with Holliday, especially if he is not the strongest defensive player at the position, which he isn't and probably will not be by the time he is promoted to the Orioles. 

 

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

56 minutes ago, banks703 said:

There isn't a problem. I think some folks see the 1:1 pick and defer to the thinking that since the player was drafted at a certain position, they HAVE to stick there. We've already seen with Gunnar, JW and Ortiz that they will move players around who were drafted as SS so I am not sure why anyone believes that they won't do that with Holliday, especially if he is not the strongest defensive player at the position, which he isn't and probably will not be by the time he is promoted to the Orioles. 

 

I don't care which position he or any of the other guys play to be honest. I'm sure those things will work themselves out. Henderson seems fine as a "bigger" SS for now (in the Seager mold). Holliday and Westburg are fine for 2B and 3B. Only one player can play SS at a time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, banks703 said:

There isn't a problem. I think some folks see the 1:1 pick and defer to the thinking that since the player was drafted at a certain position, they HAVE to stick there. We've already seen with Gunnar, JW and Ortiz that they will move players around who were drafted as SS so I am not sure why anyone believes that they won't do that with Holliday, especially if he is not the strongest defensive player at the position, which he isn't and probably will not be by the time he is promoted to the Orioles. 

 

You are comparing a 1/1 to 1/30 and later players. They don't have nearly the pedigree of Holliday. I agree with you overall but the comparison is not apples to apples. It would be more like if Adley had been struggling at C in the minors, how bad would it have to get before he is converted to 1B? We also know Elias is very methodical and doesn't deviate from his plan when he has one. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

You are comparing a 1/1 to 1/30 and later players. They don't have nearly the pedigree of Holliday. I agree with you overall but the comparison is not apples to apples. It would be more like if Adley had been struggling at C in the minors, how bad would it have to get before he is converted to 1B? We also know Elias is very methodical and doesn't deviate from his plan when he has one. 

Switching Adley or any catcher to another position is huge.   Again it’s apples vs oranges compared to switching a SS to 2B.   It would also be different if you’re switching Adley to 1B not because he’s not good defensively but because you have Johnny Bench or Pudge Rodriguez to be your catcher.

I’m not sure what Elias plan was or is but I doubt very much if it was etched in stone on 2022 draft day.   The Orioles have promoted Henderson aggressively, and continued to give him plenty of time, currently the majority of time at SS, and he’s looked great and the metrics back that up.   I am quite skeptical that Holliday is capable of becoming as good as Henderson is right now but more power to him if he can.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Posts

    • Yeah, kinda why I asked the question. That seems real lofty for a comparison.
    • After a really disappointing April that saw his ERA balloon to 7.78, Alex Pham has found his bearings in May, allowing 3 ER in 14.1 IP, allowing 8 hits and 4 walks while striking out 17.   Yesterday Pham allowed a run on 2 hits and a walk in 4.2 innings, striking out 7.   53 of 72 pitches were strikes.  The sole run charged to Pham scored when reliever Kyle Virbitsky allowed a 2-out double to the first batter he faced after relieving Pham in the fifth.    Due to the poor start, Pham’s ERA still rests at an unimpressive 5.29, but he’s definitely been headed in the right direction.  Also, he’s struck out 40 batters in 34 innings.     
    • I can’t emphasize enough how stupid that rain delay was.  No rain at all for 45 minutes, then two hours of light mist, the kind that teams play through all the time.  I was standing near the kids play area during most of the delay and believe me, that rain didn’t deter any kids from using the playground equipment for two hours. Then, 15 minutes before the game is going to start, the grounds crew is watering the infield.  What? The game itself was not worth the wait, needless to say.   But what annoys me most is the complete lack of communication during these delays.  How about letting the fans who are there know what the thinking is about how long the delay will be?  How about an update every 30 minutes or so.   Nope, nothing.   Just a generic message on the scoreboard saying that the start of the game will be delayed to to the “threat” of inclement weather.   My phone was showing .05” of rain expected in the next six hours.  Some threat! On the bright side, the team did announce that ticket holders would be given vouchers that could be used for a Monday - Thursday game.  That was the least they could do.       
    • 19,286 for that rain-delayed mess of a game.  I’d say about 2/3 of those stuck through the 3 hour delay and were in their seats at game time.  
    • And paid Scherzer, and Zimmerman, and Corbin, and Werth.   They didn’t all work out, but nobody could say the Nats didn’t spend to put a winning team on the field during their run.  The run basically ended because Stras II and Corbin blew up in their face.   But there’s always 2019.   
    • I can’t believe that 8 hours after Grayson stepped off the mound, I’m the first person to update his thread.   After a 19-day IL stint and without a rehab stint, Grayson threw 6 innings of one-hit shutout ball last night.  The one hit was an infield squibber hit 59.5 mph off the bat.  His command was a tad shaky at times, as he walked three and hit a batter, but he still breezed through 6 innings on 82 pitches, 50 for strikes.  If it hadn’t been his first outing in three weeks, he certainly could have pitched the 7th inning.  Unfortunately, the bullpen blew it for him. Fastball topped out at 98.4 and he was still hitting 97 in his final inning.  
    • I think half of Fangraphs’ staff over the years came from Lookout Landing.   I rarely read other teams’ sites, but I agree Pinstripe Alley is one of the best Yankee sites.     
  • Popular Contributors

×
×
  • Create New...