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Cease vs everyone else


Sports Guy

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2 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

I saw…and yet I’m the one who has said over and over that I don’t think Ortiz is a top 50 guy and that thinking he can highlight the package is absurd. They don’t listen.  They don’t care about facts or what is actually being said(at least by me).
 

They just want to rant because Elias isn’t taking it in the poop shoot with no lube and then saying thank You for it.

Their best guy is telling them that they are over the top in their ask. They hang onto every word he says news wise but ignore him when he says these things. He seems like a good dude and is a WS fan, so it’s not like he doesn’t want the most possible but unlike the rest of that site, he can read the room. 
 

It’s also dumb that they are looking at one list. These lists are all over the place.  Apparently BP didn’t have him on before but MLB had him 50th. They are just going to quote whatever and ignore others.  It’s disingenuous stupidity.

Wow he really is trying to temper their expectations and they are not taking it well.

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7 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

At this point, some comic relief is always a good thing.

 

This was an actual trade suggestion on the WS board:

 

BOS if they are willing to deal from their top 3 or a quantity package from BAL including Beavers, Bradfield, Horvath, Povich, McDermott and another prospect. 

 

LOL!  These people are delusional and a slave to prospect rankings.  Just a 6 for 1 deal, no biggie.

At least @Chicago White Sox was smart enough to say that’s crazy. 

I'm sure some of them weren't satisfied and wanted Mayo or Basallo plus those 6.

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On 11/15/2023 at 3:34 PM, Sports Guy said:

How many pitchers, that this team could reasonably acquire, would you take over Cease?

By reasonably acquire, I’m saying that they aren’t signing anyone to a 4+ year deal. They aren’t giving anyone 9 figures.

They may be able to do it but it’s just not going to happen.

So Cease vs other trade possibilities and any FA pitcher that could get 3 or less years.

Who would you prefer and why?

Free Agenrs ….  Clevinger, Wood , Lorenzen (They want cost players that Elias isn’t willing to trade)

Trades Burnes, Gilbert, Garrett, Luzardo

These guys are better options IMO…..Burnes and 1 year of controls is the detractor for him. But, might be at a lower cost.

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1 hour ago, Roll Tide said:

Free Agenrs ….  Clevinger, Wood , Lorenzen (They want cost players that Elias isn’t willing to trade)

Trades Burnes, Gilbert, Garrett, Luzardo

These guys are better options IMO…..Burnes and 1 year of controls is the detractor for him. But, might be at a lower cost.

Are those free agents better options solely based on not having to give up players in a trade? I dont see how any of those are better options otherwise, and even with giving up premium talent I'm not sure I see it.

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26 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Yankees have 6 top 100 guys:

 

A bunch of guys in the 60-80 range too. If the White Sox just care about maximizing names off top 100 lists to sell to their fans then the Yankees are a much better match. I don’t think anybody is going to trade their best prospects for Cease, so if the Orioles draw the line after Cowser/Kjerstad and the Yankees draw it after Jones, then the Yankees probably can put together a better offer if you prefer a deal using the 4 Yankees in 60-80 more than what the Orioles can offer from their guys just outside the top 100 lists. 

Westburg is a lot more valuable than the back half of the top 100 guys, though. 

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2 hours ago, Roll Tide said:

Free Agenrs ….  Clevinger, Wood , Lorenzen (They want cost players that Elias isn’t willing to trade)

Trades Burnes, Gilbert, Garrett, Luzardo

These guys are better options IMO…..Burnes and 1 year of controls is the detractor for him. But, might be at a lower cost.

I felt like Nicholas Cage in National Treasure trying to decifer this post.

Are you trying to say that the FAs you listed are better values than Cease because we wouldn't have to give up prospects? If yes, I guess I agree with the general principal, but there's a very good chance that Wood and Lorenzen aren't upgrades over anyone in our rotation, which certainly has to factor in as well. Signing either one of them would be like buying toilet paper at Walmart just because it's on sale even though you already have a pallet of Charmin sitting in your garage. 

Are you trying to say that the other trade targets you mentioned are better values based on the expected trade cost? It seems a bit bizarre to group someone completely unproven like Garrett in with players like Luzardo, Burnes, and Gilbert. What in the world has he done to prove his worth and get such vote of confidence (from you)? And I can get behind lobbying for a Burnes trade over a Cease trade, but I'm not sure Luzardo is a no-brainer in terms of being a better value since he would cost considerably more than Cease. Also, Gilbert shouldn't be on this list. The Mariner's aren't a realistic trade partner anymore for a SP. Not after trading Robbie Ray and the other moves they've made. 

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34 minutes ago, CaptainRedbeard said:

A bunch of guys in the 60-80 range too. If the White Sox just care about maximizing names off top 100 lists to sell to their fans then the Yankees are a much better match. I don’t think anybody is going to trade their best prospects for Cease, so if the Orioles draw the line after Cowser/Kjerstad and the Yankees draw it after Jones, then the Yankees probably can put together a better offer if you prefer a deal using the 4 Yankees in 60-80 more than what the Orioles can offer from their guys just outside the top 100 lists. 

Westburg is a lot more valuable than the back half of the top 100 guys, though. 

The WS fans want high upside guys. I get it, I would too if I were them.

 

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34 minutes ago, CaptainRedbeard said:

A bunch of guys in the 60-80 range too. If the White Sox just care about maximizing names off top 100 lists to sell to their fans then the Yankees are a much better match. I don’t think anybody is going to trade their best prospects for Cease, so if the Orioles draw the line after Cowser/Kjerstad and the Yankees draw it after Jones, then the Yankees probably can put together a better offer if you prefer a deal using the 4 Yankees in 60-80 more than what the Orioles can offer from their guys just outside the top 100 lists. 

Westburg is a lot more valuable than the back half of the top 100 guys, though. 

Good point and I think the age of the prospects (compared to ours) might also be big selling point for the White Sox.  All but one of the Yankees top six prospects are 22 or younger. If I'm looking to rebuild my team and didn't intend on competing for a few years that would heavily factor in if I was trading a player to try and restock my farm system. We keep pushing/suggesting guys like Westberg (24), Cowser (23)and Kjerstad (24), adn Ortiz (25 in this thread, but the reality is they're really probably not the best fit for a team that doesn't intend to contend for a few years.  And unfortunately the younger players who we do have (Holliday, Basillo, and Mayo) are too high end to include in a trade for a two year rental. 

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12 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

The WS fans want high upside guys. I get it, I would too if I were them.

 

I would as well. We keep trying to shove MLB ready 24 / 25 prospects down their throats, but I'm honestly not sure that's a selling to a GM if he realizes that his team is probably years away from contending. I imagine the prospects that Getz is interested in the most on our team are Holliday, Mayo and Basillo and that's largely because of upside and age. And unfortunately they're all worth too much for a two year SP rental.  As much as the pundents like Rosenthal might disagree maybe we're not actually a great fit as trade partner for the White Sox. 

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8 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

The WS fans want high upside guys. I get it, I would too if I were them.

 

Yeah understandable but it depends on what their front office wants. They probably want high upside guys too, but if they want guys who are ready to be in the lineup on Opening Day or shortly after then nobody is putting together a better package than the Orioles. And it would be smarter for them to go for a full rebuild, but they’re an organization with a terrible owner and have been run horribly. I know Getz wasn’t in charge then, but it was already a huge blunder to not trade Cease at the deadline last year. They also have a very weak division that they may be deluded into thinking they are not too far off from competing in.

Basically who knows what the White Sox want.  All we can really infer is that they want way more for Cease than what the rest of the league is willing to give for him.

I think with this trade basically defining how Getz is going to be judged as a GM for the near future and how much he’s dug in on his asking price, he’s not walking away from this without some shiny high upside names. The Orioles aren’t going to give him those, so if the Yankees or anybody else are not either he’s going to try again at the trade deadline. 

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9 minutes ago, CaptainRedbeard said:

 

I think with this trade basically defining how Getz is going to be judged as a GM for the near future and how much he’s dug in on his asking price, he’s not walking away from this without some shiny high upside names. The Orioles aren’t going to give him those, so if the Yankees or anybody else are not either he’s going to try again at the trade deadline. 

Getz should trade Cease and Robert and anyone else that can bring back a decent prospect or two.  This one foot in/one foot out crap isn't going to get him anywhere other than a couple seasons of 72-78 wins.

The only thing that I keep coming back to as to why he'd hold onto Cease and Robert is their sad sack division they play in.  Simply put, they don't need as much talent to compete in that division as they would somewhere else.  The balanced schedule nullifies that a little bit but it's still a really weak division to play in.

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