Cease vs everyone else

[Frobby]

10 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

You can't expect to get quality without giving quality back.

Unless you are a rando on a message board....

Sure, but what quality?

[ChicagoTerp]

1 minute ago, Sports Guy said:

We have 3 guys that are all gone within the next 2 seasons…and good chance all gone by OD 2025.

Hoarding guys who are ready now is a good way to finish 3rd.

 

[Can_of_corn]

22 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Or it means they don’t view what’s out there as difference making talent.  Or maybe the team they talked to doesn’t have the difference maker that would cause the Os to trade one of them.

I'd consider a pitcher that slots into the top 3 of the O's projected 2024 rotation a "difference maker".  Or sufficient quality.

9 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Sure, but what quality?

Edited December 7, 2023 by Can_of_corn
added second quote.

[Can_of_corn]

17 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

Well it would depend on who he’s trading for from the source of that blurb. As much as I’d like to have Burnes or Cease. I can’t see one of the guys mentioned for limited control. I’d trade Cowser but Elias must be much higher than anyone here. The rummage sale comment is interesting. 

I don't think it's interesting, I think it's Roch carrying water for his boss.

[Sports Guy]

2 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I'd consider a pitcher that slots into the top 3 of the O's projected 2024 rotation a "difference maker".

Ok

[Sports Guy]

Do people think the only reason the Os are regarded as the best system is because of 5 players?

[Can_of_corn]

22 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Yes, three spots..Colton and Heston are only 2 people…and Heston will play a lot of DH it sounds like.

Maybe they should spend a first round draft pick on a plus defense center fielder?  Maybe a college guy that will move through the ranks quickly?

[Frobby]

4 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I'd consider a pitcher that slots into the top 3 of the O's projected 2024 rotation a "difference maker".  Or sufficient quality.

So would I.  But we don’t know if that’s been offered in exchange.

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, Frobby said:

So would I.  But we don’t know if that’s been offered in exchange.

Of course not?

I'm just reacting to the information we've been given.

 

[Frobby]

Just now, Can_of_corn said:

Maybe they should spend a first round draft pick on a plus defense center fielder?  Maybe a college guy that will move through the ranks quickly?

Point is, you don’t have a surplus of outfielders unless you have at least 4 solid guys for 3 spots.  Right now we have two guys coming up who can replace the three we are losing in the next two years.   That’s not really a surplus.  Doesn’t mean you don’t trade one anyway, but it’s not as easy as trading an infielder where we clearly have a surplus.  

[Sports Guy]

Just now, Frobby said:

So would I.  But we don’t know if that’s been offered in exchange.

I think we know Cease has been talked about.  What we don’t know is how highly they view him and we don’t really know what the market is.

There has been a lot of stuff out there that says the market for him isn’t high enough to warrant a top 35 prospect. If that’s how the Os view it, they aren’t going to give up way more than what the market is saying.

Now, you can argue that they should to make sure they get the guy but Elias isn’t likely to do that. 
 

 

[Frobby]

Just now, Sports Guy said:

I think we know Cease has been talked about.  What we don’t know is how highly they view him and we don’t really know what the market is.

There has been a lot of stuff out there that says the market for him isn’t high enough to warrant a top 35 prospect. If that’s how the Os view it, they aren’t going to give up way more than what the market is saying.

Now, you can argue that they should to make sure they get the guy but Elias isn’t likely to do that. 
 

 

I also think both sides may be playing a waiting game hoping the other side will cave.  There’s no real hurry to get a deal done now.  

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, Frobby said:

Point is, you don’t have a surplus of outfielders unless you have at least 4 solid guys for 3 spots.  Right now we have two guys coming up who can replace the three we are losing in the next two years.   That’s not really a surplus.  Doesn’t mean you don’t trade one anyway, but it’s not as easy as trading an infielder where we clearly have a surplus.  

They do have other guys that could step up.  Or they could make a move at a latter date if they need to.

Trading one of those two wouldn't handcuff the team.

I agree that the infield situation is different.

[ThisIsBirdland]

If the White Sox are pulling back until there's market movement as has been reported, Cowser probably hasn't been on the table in talks. But that also probably means no other players comparable to Cowser have been offered by other teams either.

Trading is a game of chicken and Elias obviously doesn't easily blink. We shouldn't want him to blink if the O's are ultimately able to land one of the available TOR arms without parting with one of those top five prospects. We won't know that until deals for all of these guys materialize. Until then I'm glad he's not forcing the issue in early December by over-paying just to get it done, and I can't fault the White Sox for not blinking in early December either. These negotiations need time and context to properly play out.

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, Frobby said:

I also think both sides may be playing a waiting game hoping the other side will cave.  There’s no real hurry to get a deal done now.  

I'd say the more pitchers that get taken off the market the less leverage the O's have.

At least I've always thought a diminishing supply of goods is more impactful than a correspondingly diminishing supply of demand.