Orioles Sign Daniel Johnson to mil contract (tea leaves?)

[wildcard]

1 hour ago, wildbillhiccup said:

I don't buy it. The primary purpose of MiLB baseball is for developing players and acquiring players just to win games at that level shouldn't be the main focus or priority of a GM. Especially one who  still has work to do to put the actual MLB team in a winning environment in 2024. I also think you're grossly overrating the need for MiLB players to play on winning team in terms of the part if plays in their development as players. I think it's largely irrelevant. 

Last year Elias had Lewin Diaz, Josh Lester, and Daz Cameron on the AAA roster.   Sure they are backups in case of injury but for the most part they are AAAA players that helped boost the Norfolk team to a AAA championship.   Elias has expressed that he feels having a winning team at AAA is good for the prospects at AAA.  Diaz, Lester and Cameron were not prospects.

So adding AAAA players like Nevin and Johnson is very much the same thing Elias did last year.

Edited January 24 by wildcard

[wildbillhiccup]

Just now, wildcard said:

Last year Elias had Lewin Diaz, Josh Lester, and Daz Cameron on the AAA roster.   Sure they are backup in case of injury but for the most part they are AAAA players that helped boost the Norfolk team to a AAA championship.   Elias has expressed that he feels have a winning team at AAA is good for the prospects at AAA.  Diaz, Lester and Cameron were not prospects.

So adding AAAA players like Nevin and Johnson is very much the same thing Elias did last year.

He might have expressed that he prioritizes having winning minor league teams, but I'm saying that I don't think there's any data to support the idea that it plays an integral part in player development. This is the first offseason where Elias has been in the position to have to actively try to field a winning MLB team. It's arguably his most challenging offseason. And you're telling me the best use of his time is stacking our minor league teams with failed veterans so they can win more games? 

[wildcard]

16 minutes ago, wildbillhiccup said:

He might have expressed that he prioritizes having winning minor league teams, but I'm saying that I don't think there's any data to support the idea that it plays an integral part in player development. This is the first offseason where Elias has been in the position to have to actively try to field a winning MLB team. It's arguably his most challenging offseason. And you're telling me the best use of his time is stacking our minor league teams with failed veterans so they can win more games? 

Elias is a smart guy.  He can multi task.   He oversees the signing of players that are arbitration eligible. I'm sure someone else does a lot of the interactions with agents.  He works on hiring coaches  and other staff.   He leads the discussions with other GM on trades.    He strategizes with his staff on the make up of the team.  

Elias is involved in a lot of  things as GM.  I don't think deciding who to sign at AAA is any kind of a drain on him.  He has staff to do the actual hiring.  

Edited January 24 by wildcard

[wildbillhiccup]

2 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Elias is a smart guy.  He can multi task.   He oversees the signing of players that are arbitration eligible. I'm sure someone else does a lot of the interactions with agents.  He works on hiring coaches  and other staff.   He leads the discussions with other GM on trades.    He strategizes with his staff on the make up of the team.  

Elias is involved in a lot of  things as GM.  I don't think deciding who to sign at AAA is any kind of drain on him.  He has staff to do the actual hiring.  

It's pretty obvious that you'd probably still defend Elias even if he committed murder, but the reality is that this is unchartered water for him. He's never had to balance both maintaing a winning MLB team and well stocked farm system at the same time before. At least not as a GM. So I think a certain amount of critique when he has largely made no improvements to the MLB team either via trade or FA signings is justified. Maybe he'll make some moves in the coming weeks and this will all become a moot point, but I'm more of a I'll believe it when I see it kind of guy. 

[Spy Fox]

4 hours ago, Moose Milligan said:

Anyway I’m setting the over/under for pages about Daniel Johnson at 25 and taking the over. But at some point this will delve into Cease-land. 

Think the Sox would consider Nevin & Johnson for Cease? 

[interloper]

Daniel Johnson thread...........me................Tyler Nevin thread

[RZNJ]

10 minutes ago, wildbillhiccup said:

It's pretty obvious that you'd probably still defend Elias even if he committed murder, but the reality is that this is unchartered water for him. He's never had to balance both maintaing a winning MLB team and well stocked farm system at the same time before. At least not as a GM. So I think a certain amount of critique when he has largely made no improvements to the MLB team either via trade or FA signings is justified. Maybe he'll make some moves in the coming weeks and this will all become a moot point, but I'm more of a I'll believe it when I see it kind of guy. 

Seems like you’re moving the goal posts here.    What has stocking Norfolk with a good roster have to do with not getting enough done with the ML roster.  Re-acquiring Nevin and signing Johnson has got nothing to do with preventing Elias from adding to the 26 man roster or getting a #3 or better starter.

[Aristotelian]

31 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Last year Elias had Lewin Diaz, Josh Lester, and Daz Cameron on the AAA roster.   Sure they are backups in case of injury but for the most part they are AAAA players that helped boost the Norfolk team to a AAA championship.   Elias has expressed that he feels having a winning team at AAA is good for the prospects at AAA.  Diaz, Lester and Cameron were not prospects.

So adding AAAA players like Nevin and Johnson is very much the same thing Elias did last year.

They are similar players but I strongly suspect that the primary reason was depth for the MLB team, with winning at AAA an extra benefit. It was not a coincidence that 1B and CF were areas of need for MLB level depth, and it turned out to be a good thing that we had O'Hearn when he was needed.

[wildcard]

9 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

They are similar players but I strongly suspect that the primary reason was depth for the MLB team, with winning at AAA an extra benefit. It was not a coincidence that 1B and CF were areas of need for MLB level depth, and it turned out to be a good thing that we had O'Hearn when he was needed.

Mountcastle, O'Hearn, Santander, McCann, Adley, Mayo, Kjerstad are probably all ahead of Nevin on the O's the O's 1B depth chart.  Henderson, Westburg, Ortiz, Urias, Mayo are all ahead of Nevin on the O's 3B depth chart.    Nevin was added for his AAA bat that can play 1B/3B.  Not him playing in the majors IMO.

[wildbillhiccup]

55 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Seems like you’re moving the goal posts here.    What has stocking Norfolk with a good roster have to do with not getting enough done with the ML roster.  Re-acquiring Nevin and signing Johnson has got nothing to do with preventing Elias from adding to the 26 man roster or getting a #3 or better starter.

My point is stocking the minors with vets to improve our chances of winning at that level should be very low on his priority list. And fielding a competiive MLB team / roster should be very high on his priority list. Can he do both? Maybe, but he certainly hasn't demonstrated that yet. 

[RZNJ]

8 minutes ago, wildbillhiccup said:

My point is stocking the minors with vets to improve our chances of winning at that level should be very low on his priority list. And fielding a competiive MLB team / roster should be very high on his priority list. Can he do both? Maybe, but he certainly hasn't demonstrated that yet. 

One has ZERO to do with the other.  Be serious.    He hasn’t demonstrated that he can field a competitive MLB team / roster?   LOL

You’re getting into Gregg775 territory.   We might have to make a trade.

[Aristotelian]

6 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Mountcastle, O'Hearn, Santander, McCann, Adley, Mayo, Kjerstad are probably all ahead of Nevin on the O's the O's 1B depth chart.  Henderson, Westburg, Ortiz, Urias, Mayo are all ahead of Nevin on the O's 3B depth chart.    Nevin was added for his AAA bat that can play 1B/3B.  Not him playing in the majors IMO.

Adley, McCann, Kjerstad, and Santander all have jobs and do not have a lot of experience as full time 1B. They are emergency options not replacement options. O'Hearn can't hit LHP and is a big regression risk. I do think (hope) that he is behind Mayo and unlikely to actually play, but that's just fine, that's why you get depth, so you have options if something happens. 

[Brooks The Great]

26 minutes ago, wildbillhiccup said:

My point is stocking the minors with vets to improve our chances of winning at that level should be very low on his priority list. And fielding a competiive MLB team / roster should be very high on his priority list. Can he do both? Maybe, but he certainly hasn't demonstrated that yet. 

Just because it's low on the priority list doesn't mean Elias shouldn't do it at all.

[interloper]

1 hour ago, wildbillhiccup said:

My point is stocking the minors with vets to improve our chances of winning at that level should be very low on his priority list. And fielding a competiive MLB team / roster should be very high on his priority list. Can he do both? Maybe, but he certainly hasn't demonstrated that yet. 

He literally did both last season. Norfolk won the championship and Baltimore won 101 games. 

[wildbillhiccup]

4 minutes ago, interloper said:

He literally did both last season. Norfolk won the championship and Baltimore won 101 games. 

There weren't expectations of the Orioles contending / winning that many games last off season.