Marlins Pitching

[oriole]

2 hours ago, RZNJ said:

There is some pushing and pulling going on.  Our top 3 prospects are pretty much all considered top 25 prospects.   If we didn’t have those three teams would be more willing to accept Cowser, a top 50 guy on most lists, Ortiz, and a few other pieces.   It’s understandable that teams want one of the top three guys.  When another team steps in and offers to headline a deal with a top 25 prospect, let me know.

We are being treated differently than the Yankees when the #1 ask in that deal is Spencer Jones who most sites have rated lower than Cowser.  And, apparently, the Yanks wouldn’t include him.   Top pitchers cost a lot but top 25 prospects don’t come so easy other.    The 2022 Cease was a top pitcher.  I’d give up Mayo for that guy.   The 2021 and 2023 Cease was pretty good but no Mayo.

Luzardo should cost more than Cease.  Again we have enough, IMO, to get him without dipping into our top 3, but because we have those 3, teams are holding us to a different standard than other teams.

Luzardo should cost more than Cease but it’s also worth noting that Cease is not worth what Chicago is asking for him. Cease should cost something like Westburg and Beavers…Luzardo should be an upgrade, something like Cowser and Ortiz. 

[RZNJ]

2 minutes ago, oriole said:

Luzardo should cost more than Cease but it’s also worth noting that Cease is not worth what Chicago is asking for him. Cease should cost something like Westburg and Beavers…Luzardo should be an upgrade, something like Cowser and Ortiz. 

I would say WS and Marlin fans probably think you’re wrong.   Cowser and Ortiz for Luzardo sounds way too easy.  Everyone on this board would do either trade in a heartbeat probably (except for a few Westburg fans) which should tell you something.

[Brooks The Great]

6 hours ago, SoxFan3344 said:

Luzardo is not going to cost less than Cease. Garrett, might, but Marlins aren’t just gonna give away a pitcher with 5 years of control for scraps or Jorge Mateo’s/Anthony Santanders

Not sure why you group Mateo and Santander together. One is a legimitate middle of the order bat who plays every day, the other is a scrub who's going to be fighting to be on major league rosters the next few years.

[oriole]

25 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

I would say WS and Marlin fans probably think you’re wrong.   Cowser and Ortiz for Luzardo sounds way too easy.  Everyone on this board would do either trade in a heartbeat probably (except for a few Westburg fans) which should tell you something.

Honestly, I’ve reached the point that if it costs much more in terms of whose headlining a trade, then just count me out of wanting to see it done. I think the staff is precariously thin, but that’s a better option than sending multiple guys that, I think, will have decent major league careers right at the moment that they’re about to start helping the major league team. To be honest, John should stop being cheap and just allow Elias to sign a decent free agent. 

[jabba72]

Starting pitching or #1 and #2's just have astronomical value right now when you look at the contracts handed out for them, so it kind of makes sense that they aren't easily acquired in trades, when they have a few years of control. 

[jabba72]

1 hour ago, Brooks The Great said:

Not sure why you group Mateo and Santander together. One is a legimitate middle of the order bat who plays every day, the other is a scrub who's going to be fighting to be on major league rosters the next few years.

Santander's a bit one dimensional with the power. Not a bad player to have in you're lineup, but the trade value wont bring you back a clear upgrade.

[CHIP]

8 hours ago, truespectra said:

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2024/01/latest-on-marlins-rotation-trade-possibilities.html
 

they have a few pitchers (Garrett and Luzardo) that might cost less than Cease and some with more years of control. They seem like a better trade partner- they need a shortstop. If not now, maybe at the trade deadline. Thoughts? 

There was a story on MLB Trade Rumors yesterday about Mancini signing MILB contract with Miami.  In the chat someone was talking about trade possibility for Luzardo.  "Hope the O’s and Marlins can get together for a blockbuster Luzardo deal and fill the many holes in the left side of their infield. Ortiz/Stowers/Maverick Handley/Ramon Urias would put 3 starters on the team and a future catcher."    Is this good or too much/little?

[Orange]

Good conversation on the LockedOn Orioles podcast with a Marlins writer who was surprisingly well-informed about the Orioles system. They decided that the Fish would demand Mayo for Luzardo and that it was unlikely to happen.

But then they turned the conversation toward a Cabrera deal and said that an Ortiz, Norby, Stowers package would be something the Marlins would do... They need MLB-ready hitters in the worst way, obviously. I like Ortiz as a prospect and I think Stowers has untapped upside... but Ortiz also fell out of the BA Top 100 (for some reason), Stowers hasn't performed in the show  (maybe a AAAA guy), and Norby is the last man standing in a game of musical chairs. We can afford to deal these guys and the Marlins would be getting a pretty solid boost at a number of spots. Looks like a feasible win-win. Maybe we'd have to include an arm like Pinto or Baumler.

That said, Cabrera isn't a top pitcher. His 5.96 BB/9 last year is troubling... and historically his WHIP and BB/9 are all over the place. I'm searching for anything that could be considered consistent, and his BA Against has been really good and rather consistent. Since COVID it's been .214 or lower at every stop other than .247 in 26 IP in 2021 at the MLB level. So, he strikes people out and doesn't give up a lot of hits. It's the same old thing, though - right-handed strikeout pitcher who loses too many hitters to a BB. It seems like if he doesn't try so hard to strike everyone out and pitches to a 9.5 K/9 (still good) he can keep the walks down. (Like a lot of people.) When he goes for that 11+ K/9 he walks guys. So, I would be in favor of this deal. There's talent to work with there. He's got five years of control, too.

For the record, I'd include Mayo and take the left-handed TOR ace. Perhaps you ask for a prospect like Janero Miller to be thrown in.

We should be focusing on RH OBP hitters and LH power hitters... and Mayo is a RH power hitter, plus he has a below average glove. (Great arm... but that doesn't help much at 1B. I don't believe he's the answer at 3B or RF. Sell high.)

[Orange]

15 minutes ago, CHIP said:

There was a story on MLB Trade Rumors yesterday about Mancini signing MILB contract with Miami.  In the chat someone was talking about trade possibility for Luzardo.  "Hope the O’s and Marlins can get together for a blockbuster Luzardo deal and fill the many holes in the left side of their infield. Ortiz/Stowers/Maverick Handley/Ramon Urias would put 3 starters on the team and a future catcher."    Is this good or too much/little?

For Luzardo? That package doesn't scratch the surface. Needs a headliner from our top 5 or 6... and probably another good one. Ortiz has some value but those other guys aren't worth much. Luzardo is a bona-fide LH ace with three years of control.

[Greg Pappas]

Just a quick look at their presumed staff for 2024: Sandy Alcantara is out for the season after TJ surgery, Jesus Luzardo is the De Facto ace, and the likely remaining starters are rookie phenom Eury Perez at #2, Garrett Braxton at #3, Edward Cabrera at #4, and no one I can peg as their #5.  

[RZNJ]

6 minutes ago, Greg Pappas said:

Just a quick look at their presumed staff for 2024: Sandy Alcantara is out for the season after TJ surgery, Jesus Luzardo is the De Facto ace, and the likely remaining starters are rookie phenom Eury Perez at #2, Garrett Braxton at #3, Edward Cabrera at #4, and no one I can peg as their #5.  

Max Meyer or Trevor Rodger’s.

[Sports Guy]

7 minutes ago, Greg Pappas said:

Just a quick look at their presumed staff for 2024: Sandy Alcantara is out for the season after TJ surgery, Jesus Luzardo is the De Facto ace, and the likely remaining starters are rookie phenom Eury Perez at #2, Garrett Braxton at #3, Edward Cabrera at #4, and no one I can peg as their #5.  

Rogers

[ChosenOne21]

On 1/25/2024 at 6:28 PM, Orange said:

For Luzardo? That package doesn't scratch the surface. Needs a headliner from our top 5 or 6... and probably another good one. Ortiz has some value but those other guys aren't worth much. Luzardo is a bona-fide LH ace with three years of control.

For sure. You're lucky if you can get Luzardo without including Mayo or Basallo. You're definitely not getting him without Cowser, Kjerstad, or Westburg in the deal, and the Marlins would be within rights to demand two out of those three.

[Greg Pappas]

6 hours ago, RZNJ said:

Max Meyer or Trevor Rodger’s.

6 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

Rogers

Both are coming off injuries.  Meyer didn't pitch in 2023 and has only started two games in the majors and Rogers pitched in just 18 innings in 2023.  Time will tell.

Edited January 28 by Greg Pappas

[AnythingO's]

As to Rogers, the injury that blew his season was a lat tear on his non-throwing side I believe. Not really a pitching injury. He was expected t be full go in ST.

Edited January 28 by AnythingO's
correction