Will striking out 40% of the time ....

[wildcard]

effect Holliday and Westburg's chances to make the team this spring?

Mayo is doing better in that department.

Edited March 13 by wildcard

[spleen1015]

No. Westburg is already on the team and Holliday hits well otherwise.

[Sports Guy]

Westburg has no risk. Holliday could but it will be because of service time.

When are you going to learn that smart teams and people around the game don’t put the value on tiny sample sizes like you do?  

Just stop with this.  It means NOTHING!!!

[forphase1]

Westburg, no.  As to Holliday it wouldn't surprise me a bit if when he's sent down that's one of the reasons they give. 

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, forphase1 said:

Westburg, no.  As to Holliday it wouldn't surprise me a bit if when he's sent down that's one of the reasons they give. 

The best way to not strike out against ML pitching is to not face ML pitching.

Makes a lot of sense.

[foxfield]

6 minutes ago, wildcard said:

effect Holliday and Westburg's chances to make the team this spring?

Mayo is doing better in that department.

If it did, it would be a clear change in Elias strategy. 

[forphase1]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

The best way to not strike out against ML pitching is to not face ML pitching.

Makes a lot of sense.

Didn't say it makes sense.   Holliday should be on the team OD.  But I've said all along that I expect him to start in AAA for service time reasons,  and when he's sent down I expect the amount of Ks will be one of the reasons they give to try to justify the decision.  Unless he showed zero issues or flaws,  I believe that was always the plan,  Elias nice statements to the media/press notwithstanding.   If he proves me wrong it'll be some of the best crow I've ever eaten.   

[Can_of_corn]

5 minutes ago, forphase1 said:

Didn't say it makes sense.   Holliday should be on the team OD.  But I've said all along that I expect him to start in AAA for service time reasons,  and when he's sent down I expect the amount of Ks will be one of the reasons they give to try to justify the decision.  Unless he showed zero issues or flaws,  I believe that was always the plan,  Elias nice statements to the media/press notwithstanding.   If he proves me wrong it'll be some of the best crow I've ever eaten.   

But that isn't the same thing.

Elias saying that was a factor to explain away service manipulation isn't the same thing as it actually being a factor.

Push come to shove they can just say he's "working on his defense".

[forphase1]

2 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

But that isn't the same thing.

Elias saying that was a factor to explain away service manipulation isn't the same thing as it actually being a factor.

Push come to shove they can just say he's "working on his defense".

Oh I expect a defense 'reason' to be included in what they claim too.  I believe from the beginning the plan was always to send him down unless he just performed so incredible that they simply couldn't.  And while he's been great and SHOULD start on OD, the amount of Ks is an easy data point they they use to show why he needs more seasoning in AAA, along with the defense and arm strength perhaps.  

I don't think the Ks are REALLY a factor,  ie I don't think if the plan was for him to start OD the Ks would be changing their mind.  But the Ks will be a factor to give them cover for making an unpopular decision.

[TommyPickles]

Giving up three or four weeks of a 20-year-old splitting time in a crowded infield mix in exchange for a shot at an extra year of control of a potential All-Star-type player?

Kind of a no-brainer for the ownership. I don't see Holliday making the OD roster.

[Can_of_corn]

8 minutes ago, forphase1 said:

Oh I expect a defense 'reason' to be included in what they claim too.  I believe from the beginning the plan was always to send him down unless he just performed so incredible that they simply couldn't.  And while he's been great and SHOULD start on OD, the amount of Ks is an easy data point they they use to show why he needs more seasoning in AAA, along with the defense and arm strength perhaps.  

I don't think the Ks are REALLY a factor,  ie I don't think if the plan was for him to start OD the Ks would be changing their mind.  But the Ks will be a factor to give them cover for making an unpopular decision.

Sure, so you disagree with Wildcard.

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, TommyPickles said:

Giving up three or four weeks of a 20-year-old splitting time in a crowded infield mix in exchange for a shot at an extra year of control of a potential All-Star-type player?

Kind of a no-brainer for the ownership. I don't see Holliday making the OD roster.

So all the other teams are stupid? 

I would find it oh so funny if they tried it and he pulled the same trick Adley did and earned his year of service time despite the team's efforts.

[maybenxtyr]

6 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

So all the other teams are stupid? 

I would find it oh so funny if they tried it and he pulled the same trick Adley did and earned his year of service time despite the team's efforts.

It seems as though I've said this 5 times in the last week. People just don't want to listen.

[Just Regular]

12 minutes ago, TommyPickles said:

Giving up three or four weeks of a 20-year-old splitting time in a crowded infield mix in exchange for a shot at an extra year of control of a potential All-Star-type player?

Kind of a no-brainer for the ownership. I don't see Holliday making the OD roster.

Pete Alonso is making $20M this year, and might be making ~$10M extra if he had free agency one year sooner.

The Orioles brand is under ongoing evaluation by Adley, Gunnar, Grayson, Holliday, Mayo, Basallo, Angelos, Boras, Rubenstein, the MLBPA, Elias, Burnes and Santander, at least one of whom has gone public about wanting to stay here.

The AL East champion starts October with approximately double the championship probability of anyone else in the division.    If Kolten Wong or Jorge Mateo or Ramon Urias is the priority play 3/28, the Club also incurs an opportunity cost growing Jackson Holliday's baseball skills for the sharpest 2024 competition, and opts out of the draft pick reward upside if he is successful enough to be Rookie of the Year.

2023 Gunnar Henderson earned Mike Elias an asset Elias can use to perhaps pick Gunnar's replacement this July.

[Aristotelian]

26 minutes ago, TommyPickles said:

Giving up three or four weeks of a 20-year-old splitting time in a crowded infield mix in exchange for a shot at an extra year of control of a potential All-Star-type player?

Kind of a no-brainer for the ownership. I don't see Holliday making the OD roster.

If you think Holliday will finish top two in ROY, then we are going to lose the service time no matter what. The only way to guarantee the service time will be to hold him down way longer than 3-4 weeks. Would need to be more like 3+ months.