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I want Matusz in the rotation....

jdouble777

By jdouble777
in Orioles Talk

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TyCobb Perennial All-Star

TyCobb

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This just seems like an incredibly ridiculous comment to me. I can't respect that type of opinion. Of course he'll learn things in the minors.

Ridiculous? What is he going to learn in the minors? He isn't going to change a thing if he pitches in the minors. It is almost impossible for a pitcher to change something he is doing if he is preforming at a high level. The only reason he isn't going start his career in the majors is because of his contract.

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Tx Oriole Hangout Grand Counsel

Tx Oriole

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:eek::(:confused::o:):D

:rofl: :laughlol: :mwahaha: :scratchchinhmm:

I do, I don't care, I think he can handle it, they won't do it, and I guess we will see if he has any problems throughout the transition then I'm defiantly wrong. I don't think I'm wrong, he is certainly going to get better and probably is more of a Clayton Kershaw of last year in that we are talking 4.5 ERA but we are in a position where that is worth a good bit, defense/offense/bullpen. There are plenty of pitchers who have done it, but there is the argument that he did not pitch in a real difficult college division and his fastball is average at best bet whatever, he is our number 5. And will be come September...

http://masnsports.com/2009/03/matusz-pitches-like-a-man.html

Felix Hernandez (out the gate, ready to rock):

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=4772&position=P

Tim Lincecum (13 minor league starts until '08)

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=5705&position=P

Johan Santana (out the gate, but did not work)

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=755&position=P

Jim Palmer (36 minor league games, no starts)

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/P/Jim-Palmer.shtml

All in all though, I don't think any of them had four crazy breaking pitches they could pitch with confidence, granted their fastball are legendary...

I do too. But not this year.

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Orioles Magic Major Leaguer Cup of Coffee

Orioles Magic

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No reason to rush Matusz or any of the baby birds at this point. It's not like the O's are playing for anything this year anyway, why jeopardize their development and confidence. Good things are just around the corner for this franchise so long as they exercise the requisite patience and good judgment.

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TJ Wrangler Major Leaguer

TJ Wrangler

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Not at all. I think he can probably handle 200 ips, I just don't want to risk it. Even if he starts in the Minors, I dont want him throwing over 150 innings.

Then he's not major league ready if you still think it is a risk to throw him out there for a full season.

He definitely needs to build up to this in the minors, because doing it at the big league club will hurt him and the Orioles because of how they have to baby him all season.

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TyCobb Perennial All-Star

TyCobb

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Then he's not major league ready if you still think it is a risk to throw him out there for a full season.

He definitely needs to build up to this in the minors, because doing it at the big league club will hurt him and the Orioles because of how they have to baby him all season.

Did you forget about the Joba rules? I doubt that it hurt Joba or the Yankees.

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jdouble777 Major Leaguer Cup of Coffee

jdouble777

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Pretty soon we might have a Hitler video of Jdouble777's reaction to Matusz being sent down.

You can take that to the bank! :)

I am apprehensive about the fact he relies so heavily on breaking stuff, although it is incrediably unique and I think his strikeout rate is going to be phenomenal it is usally characterized by most that the more breaking stuff the more apt for injury:

I cannot find the link but the three huge flags are a massive increase in innings pitch over the prior year, breaking stuff percentage over fastball/changeup (typically anything in the 30% range is dangerous) and obviously, odd delivery

What about Tillman, I mean the fifth starter is going to be SO bad why not get someone out there who will dominate every now and then, OMG his confidence will be destroyed forever. D-Cab failed because he has nothing but a two-seam fastball, you cannot win in this league without three plus pitches, not consistently...

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jdouble777 Major Leaguer Cup of Coffee

jdouble777

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Ridiculous? What is he going to learn in the minors? He isn't going to change a thing if he pitches in the minors. It is almost impossible for a pitcher to change something he is doing if he is preforming at a high level. The only reason he isn't going start his career in the majors is because of his contract.

He is going to learn to use his freaking unbelievable curveball as an out pitch and to rely on his fastball and changeup, I think Koji is without a doubt the perfect person to tutor Matusz now if we can just buy Matusz the Rosetta Stone for Japanese.

If Matusz continues to rely heavily on breaking pitches I don't think he will have a very long career, not because of lack of success but because of injury.

However, I don't think his fastball and/or changeup need work he just needs to trust them and stop trying to get a swing and miss K every time despite who intimidating it is and how good he is at it.

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jdouble777 Major Leaguer Cup of Coffee

jdouble777

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Then he's not major league ready if you still think it is a risk to throw him out there for a full season.

He definitely needs to build up to this in the minors, because doing it at the big league club will hurt him and the Orioles because of how they have to baby him all season.

I would have no problem giving him 150 innings this year and calling it a day, put him in the pen for long relief or something, our pitching staff will once again cripple an otherwise DOMINANT team and we don't have to be.

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Mackus Hangout Grand Counsel

Mackus

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Ridiculous? What is he going to learn in the minors? He isn't going to change a thing if he pitches in the minors. It is almost impossible for a pitcher to change something he is doing if he is preforming at a high level. The only reason he isn't going start his career in the majors is because of his contract.
I think you are being naive to the point of absurdity if you don't think there is anything he has to learn or that he won't improve at all by facing the toughest competition he's ever faced before this season (AA and AAA hitters).

He wasn't in an elite college conference. He can definitely learn a lot about how to get better hitters out in the minors. I think he could probably do decently in the majors, but I have very little doubt that it is vastly better for his future that he spends some substantial time in the minors this season. I'd say a month or two at AA, then another month or two at AAA, coming up sometime in July or August if he is pitching well.

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TJ Wrangler Major Leaguer

TJ Wrangler

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Did you forget about the Joba rules? I doubt that it hurt Joba or the Yankees.

Anyone with Joba's talent can throw two pitches in relief and dominate. Besides, right now he's struggling.

I also think the Joba rules were a hype machine generated by ESPN moreso than gospel to coach by.

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jdouble777 Major Leaguer Cup of Coffee

jdouble777

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Anyone with Joba's talent can throw two pitches in relief and dominate. Besides, right now he's struggling.

I also think the Joba rules were a hype machine generated by ESPN moreso than gospel to coach by.

Agreed.

Joba will probably post a pretty awesome line this year, not sure if they will relegate him to set up or situational closer or not but either way, starting or relief, he will be good, but I don't think he will ever hit 200 IP, his breaking stuff is marginal minus one pitch

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TyCobb Perennial All-Star

TyCobb

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I think you are being naive to the point of absurdity if you don't think there is anything he has to learn or that he won't improve at all by facing the toughest competition he's ever faced before this season (AA and AAA hitters).

He wasn't in an elite college conference. He can definitely learn a lot about how to get better hitters out in the minors. I think he could probably do decently in the majors, but I have very little doubt that it is vastly better for his future that he spends some substantial time in the minors this season. I'd say a month or two at AA, then another month or two at AAA, coming up sometime in July or August if he is pitching well.

He would reach the 150 inning by then and would probably be shut down. No point to bring up him up to pitch in a game or two.

He is going to start in the Minors. He is going to dominate for a month or two and then he is probably going to get called up once our 3-5 starters can't get passed the 4th inning.

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TyCobb Perennial All-Star

TyCobb

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Anyone with Joba's talent can throw two pitches in relief and dominate. Besides, right now he's struggling.

I also think the Joba rules were a hype machine generated by ESPN moreso than gospel to coach by.

They weren't hyped up. They were follow exactly by the coaches. I am talking about it has been down before with prized prospects. Limiting the innings for those pitchers.

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Frobby Hangout Grand Counsel

Frobby

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Ridiculous? What is he going to learn in the minors? He isn't going to change a thing if he pitches in the minors. It is almost impossible for a pitcher to change something he is doing if he is preforming at a high level. The only reason he isn't going start his career in the majors is because of his contract.

When was the last time that any pitcher went straight to the majors? As I've documented elsewhere, in the last 11 years there have only been 3 pitchers who started any higher than A+ -- Mark Prior (AA), Mark Mulder (AAA), and Dewon Brazelton (AA). Do you honestly think Matusz is the best-prepared pitcher in more than a decade?

There's plenty for Matusz to do in the minors this year.

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TyCobb Perennial All-Star

TyCobb

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When was the last time that any pitcher went straight to the majors? As I've documented elsewhere, in the last 11 years there have only been 3 pitchers who started any higher than A+ -- Mark Prior (AA), Mark Mulder (AAA), and Dewon Brazelton (AA). Do you honestly think Matusz is the best-prepared pitcher in more than a decade?

There's plenty for Matusz to do in the minors this year.

There is always a first. I still want him to start in the Bigs. I know he won't. I am just stating my case.

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