In regards to guys like Pie and Penn....

[JTrea81]

Great point.

Penn > Moore

Millar > Eaton

Yet, Moore deserves a chance and Penn doesn't? lol

Moore didn't perform horribly at the ML level in his very limited ABs while Penn has bombed in every opportunity given to him and he didn't exactly set AAA on fire either when he was healthy last season.

Moore is also in a position where the Orioles don't have a ton of depth and Penn is. It's a lot easier to replace Hayden Penn than it is Scott Moore.

Moore also went out and proved that he belonged in the majors in ST and the only reason he was sent down was because the Orioles couldn't manage a roster properly and didn't have quality talent at certain positions. What has Penn done this spring to show that he really wants a rotation slot? Ditto for Pie. What has Pie done on the field and at the plate to show he's worthy of the full time LF job?

I believe a player should earn their place on the team if they are in a competition and not just be handed it because they are out of options or because they are a veteran. I'm not fond of Eaton in the rotation, but he's earned a spot because he wasn't one of the worst pitchers in camp. Penn has not and he was.

This is still the major leagues where the cream of the crop should be playing. Penn and Pie have yet to prove in their given stints, that they can harness their talent to be in that cream of the crop. Just because we appear to be tanking the season doesn't mean that those two shouldn't have to earn their place.

[tvz1997]

I must've missed the part where we got 12 pitchers better than Hayden Penn. I swear, I've been checking the O's transaction lists every day, and I'll be damned if I can find them.

p.s. this is what I mean by "angry moral point." Perhaps not the most elegant phrase, but there you have it.

For the record, it is quite possible to not be of the prevailing opinion that Penn should make the 25-man and hold no anger towards the young man. I wish he had soidified his spot two years ago and still hope he'll make it some day. I doubt it, but I hope so.

Tell me, if you want Penn to stay, who do you so maliciously hope gets cut?

[Frobby]

It's a lot easier to replace Hayden Penn than it is Scott Moore.

That's like saying it's a lot easier to replace a disposable razor than it is a toothbrush. Neither one is exactly irreplaceable.

I'm not fond of Eaton in the rotation, but he's earned a spot because he wasn't one of the worst pitchers in camp. Penn has not and he was.

Eaton hasn't had an equal opportunity to screw up yet. Penn had a better ERA than Eaton going into today. Give Eaton his own chance to get bombed!

[OsB4Bros]

Pie will be fine when the season starts. The worst thing about spring training is the over emphasis that is put on it.

In the defense of pitchers, including Penn, they throw a very high percentage of fast balls the majority of the Spring to loosen up their arms and mechanics; the breaking stuff comes right around the start of the season.

In the defense of hitters, including Pie, they mess with different approaches at the plate. For instance, Hanley Ramirez is batting .077 this spring. Do you actually think he is going to hit less than .300 on the season?

Point being, don't pay attention the spring because they are the most worthless stats in baseball......Well 2nd to Bonds' homeruns :wedge:

[Lt Melmo]

Moore didn't perform horribly at the ML level

His career ML OPS+ is 69. That's horrible. I would mention that he has 98 ABs, but I know you don't actually give a damn about sample size.

[Mackus]

I don't really think its fair saying "guys like Pie and Penn".

Pie and Penn are only similar in age, really. Pie has hit everywhere in the minors, and only struggled in the majors.

Penn started out similar to Pie, but has really been quite bad the last couple seasons in the minors. Now some of that definitely is due to injuries, but how much?

I think if we have a spot, Penn should get a chance. I think we should make a spot to give Pie a chance. Penn doesn't deserve the same chance Pie will get, because he hasn't accomplished the things that Pie has in the minors. I would keep Penn over Baez or Simon or someone, although ideally Penn would still be at AAA. The only reason he's even being considered for the MLB squad at this point is because he is out of options.

[sdeclue]

I've posted rarely on this board but have lurked for several years and come to the conclusion that Sports Guy is the poster whose thoughts and ideas are closest to mine.

Why don't we give Penn and Pie an honest shot? What do we have to lose? The only person it's possibly hurting is Reimold. We should have traded Luke Scott to fix part of that problem.

[Tx Oriole]

..and others like them...Why are some of you so against give them a true chance?

Seems like their is some angst towards these guys being on the roster...Why?

I am not against giving these two players a chance. I want Pie to be successful. As for Penn, the BP or rotation the same. I am just not agaisnt seeing waht a vet like Baez can do inthe BP or Eaton in the rotation.

[Tx Oriole]

Yep....It is the typical Dave Trembley double standard.

What? You have to explain that to me. How is he using a double standard?

[Tx Oriole]

I missed that report. Where did you read that?

Nick Markakis is not a good basestealer. Maybe he just doesn't want to learn to be any good at it.

I thought i had read were Pie was talking to Crow and was trying to get better. Was spending more time inthe batting cage. Was putting his best foot forward.

[mikezpen]

The Orioles are in an ideal position to tap their potential. You're going to lose 90+ games. They can throw them out there without worrying about the team's W-L record.

[Tx Oriole]

I want the pitcher that will give us the most quality starts, and surprisingly enough, that's Eaton apparently.

Penn will make it to Norfolk and if he doesn't we won't miss him as we've got plenty of other arms to slot in the rotation.

The deal with Penn and Pie is that they've been given chances and they've failed. Yeah you hate to give up on them, but they aren't as good as what you have ready to take their place and the team is actually better off without them.

Sometime it's best just to cut ties and move on. It's not worth hurting the other 23 guys to carry two projects. Pie and Penn will only hold the Orioles back...

Yes, he has had his chances. Limited time with the Cubs. Pie needs to play. He needs a year to get the real chance to see what he can do. Not 30 plate appearances with the Cubs who are in a win now mode. Penn needs more time also. How can you say they hold back the O's?

[Mackus]

What? You have to explain that to me. How is he using a double standard?

He's not, just a ton of hyperbole.

[DrungoHazewood]

I don't see the situations as analogous.

1. Penn has been poor for 2+ years in the minors.

2. Penn had surgery in early 2007 and really has never looked the same as he did when he was a hot prospect.

3. As a pitcher, a poor start from Penn has huge impact on the outcome of the game. Very tough to win when your pitcher has a day like Penn had today. An 0 for 4 from one of 9 guys in your lineup has far less effect on the game.

4. Even on an 0 for 4 day, Pie can still have a positive impact with his defense (once he settles into LF).

5. Getting shelled, for a pitcher, hurts him psychologically and may prevent him from working on things he needs to work on, moreso than a failure at the plate affects a hitter. (My opinion here.)

Thus, the call on Pie is much easier than Penn. For Penn, I think you build his confidence by getting him some relief innings before sending him out and trying to get him to pitch well for 5-6 innings.

One again the voice of reason.

Saying Penn = Pie because they're both young and used to be top prospects is glossing over most of the real evidence.

[Frobby]

I've posted rarely on this board but have lurked for several years and come to the conclusion that Sports Guy is the poster whose thoughts and ideas are closest to mine.

Well, you seem to have a nicer way of expressing them.