Burnes certainly hasn't pitched like an ACE

[OriolesMagic83]

1 hour ago, interloper said:

Maybe we can trade for Skubal in the offseason? 

If you haven't noticed, Detroit is now an above .500 team.  I think the O's will be better served by getting the best non Burnes FA pitcher they can.  We already know how overboard their demands will be.  If the O's are looking for a trade, Crochet might be the pitcher to try and trade for as his stock has fallen but he still has upside as high as any pitcher in the game.

[Spy Fox]

He's been struggling to finish innings/snuff out rallies lately. A theme in his August starts was game-changing blows with 2 outs in the middle innings: 

• August 4 @CLE: Allows 3-run HR to Naylor with 2 outs in the 5th
• August 11 @TB: Allows back to back RBI doubles with 2 outs in the 5th 
• August 16 vs BOS: Allows go-ahead single then 3-run HR to Yoshida with 2 outs in the 4th
• August 22 vs HOU: Allows three straight RBI singles with 2 outs in the 6th
• August 28 @LAD: Allows go-ahead 3-run HR to Teoscar with 2 outs in the 3rd 

It's been really frustrating to watch. I think he's pitched better than the results show, but there's some sequencing bad luck here and he's been consistently unable to make the big pitch when he needs to. 

[LookitsPuck]

4 minutes ago, Spy Fox said:

He's been struggling to finish innings/snuff out rallies lately. A theme in his August starts was game-changing blows with 2 outs in the middle innings: 

• August 4 @CLE: Allows 3-run HR to Naylor with 2 outs in the 5th
• August 11 @TB: Allows back to back RBI doubles with 2 outs in the 5th 
• August 16 vs BOS: Allows go-ahead single then 3-run HR to Yoshida with 2 outs in the 4th
• August 22 vs HOU: Allows three straight RBI singles with 2 outs in the 6th
• August 28 @LAD: Allows go-ahead 3-run HR to Teoscar with 2 outs in the 3rd 

It's been really frustrating to watch. I think he's pitched better than the results show, but there's some sequencing bad luck here and he's been consistently unable to make the big pitch when he needs to. 

His 2 out numbers are far worse than his 0/1 out numbers. It is very telling.

[glenn__davis]

3 minutes ago, LookitsPuck said:

His 2 out numbers are far worse than his 0/1 out numbers. It is very telling.

Is it?  What does it tell us?

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, Tony-OH said:

If he pitches like an ace in September and in the playoffs will I call him an ace? I'd say he pitched like an ace.

Is he a legitimate ace that you can count on to pitch a good game when you need it, he just showed us this August he was not. Honestly, while he was pitching well, he wasn't exactly dominating like aces do anyways so no, I will call him a good #2 who was pitching like an ace.

Let's hope I can say that.

Interesting.  I’d certainly say Burnes was an ace through July.  He started the all-star game, and was leading the league in ERA around then.

It’s not like he’s some pitcher without a track record.  He’s won a Cy Young and has gotten CY votes four years in a row.  He’s been top 10 in his league in ERA 3 years in a row (and is 6th in the AL now despite his bad August).  He’s been an all-star four years in a row.   

Burnes has a career record in September of 13-5, 2.68 ERA.   If he pitches close to that this September, I’m calling him an ace who had a mysterious hiccup this August.  If he’s mediocre in September, I’ll say he’s a former ace who looks like he may have slipped off his perch.   

 

 

[tntoriole]

2 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

Yes, he did go from an Ace to a #2 based on him wilting under the pressure of this stretch run. 

If he suddenly starts to pitch like he's capable in September, then maybe he can be considered an ace again.

Players do figure things out and Burnes has the stuff to do so, but he's doing things that aces don't do. Show me an Ace pitcher that wilted in August during a stretch run like Burnes has.

It's easy to just sit back and say, "Oh he's an ace" and don't question how small he's coming up, but this is exactly what a true ace does not do. they may have a bad outing here and there, but they don't put up an embarrassing month in August, right after the trade deadline when a team can do nothing else really. 

Eflin went down and it's like Burnes crapped his pants knowing he was now the guy-guy. It's sad because I expected more from him but he's showed us that he can't be trusted to give a good outing when the team needs one like Aces do.

Agree!!  Suppose a contender had made a deadline deal for Burnes.  Their fans would be fit to be tied .   Wonder what the return would have been for us?  Hmmm

Edited August 29 by tntoriole

[OriolesMagic83]

28 minutes ago, Spy Fox said:

He's been struggling to finish innings/snuff out rallies lately. A theme in his August starts was game-changing blows with 2 outs in the middle innings: 

• August 4 @CLE: Allows 3-run HR to Naylor with 2 outs in the 5th
• August 11 @TB: Allows back to back RBI doubles with 2 outs in the 5th 
• August 16 vs BOS: Allows go-ahead single then 3-run HR to Yoshida with 2 outs in the 4th
• August 22 vs HOU: Allows three straight RBI singles with 2 outs in the 6th
• August 28 @LAD: Allows go-ahead 3-run HR to Teoscar with 2 outs in the 3rd 

It's been really frustrating to watch. I think he's pitched better than the results show, but there's some sequencing bad luck here and he's been consistently unable to make the big pitch when he needs to. 

There has been some bad defense behind him, shown by the high # of unearned runs.  Burnes hasn't been able to pitch out of trouble.  He gets 2 outs, Gunnar or someone else flubs and easy grounder and then he gives up a HR.  He seems to not be able to pitch w/ runners on base any more.  Someone mentioned that he could be tipping pitches that get picked up from 2B.  Whenever Burners gives up a single or walk, they are on 2nd within a few pitches unless the inning ends, so maybe that's how innings are unravelling.

[tntoriole]

1 minute ago, OriolesMagic83 said:

There has been some bad defense behind him, shown by the high # of unearned runs.  Burnes hasn't been able to pitch out of trouble.  He gets 2 outs, Gunnar or someone else flubs and easy grounder and then he gives up a HR.  He seems to not be able to pitch w/ runners on base any more.  Someone mentioned that he could be tipping pitches that get picked up from 2B.  Whenever Burners gives up a single or walk, they are on 2nd within a few pitches unless the inning ends, so maybe that's how innings are unravelling.

It was mentioned last night that apparently a few years back he gave up 5 steals all season. 

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, tntoriole said:

It was mentioned last night that apparently a few years back he gave up 5 steals all season. 

That would have been before they changed the rules to help facilitate the running game.

Probably a combination of fewer baserunners, fewer attempts and lowered success rate league wide.

Not sure who he had as a catcher but that was also probably a factor.

[BRobinsonfan]

12 hours ago, Roy Firestone said:

This was a game a true ace has to win. He was paired against a struggling pitcher, and our "ace" hasn't been dominant in the last 3-4 starts. As I expected Burnes came up small even though the  line said he was only charged with one earned run(Ohtani's leadoff  first inning HR was another thing an "ace" doesnt give up).When Urias made a horrible error , an "ace" bears down and doesn't groove a pitch for a 3-run HR which was basically the game right there.Then tack on a terrible wild pitch in which the runner took TWO bases, another Henderson error on a routine play, and there you have it. Our Ace has given up 6 runs in all and there was little evidence he will be the dominating pitcher we saw in the first half of the season. I know the errors were the key to the game, but usually the great pitchers find a way to overcome the extra outs...and Burnes didnt do that.I know Eflin will return to the rotation in the Colorado series, and then two weeks later, Grayson. But if Burnes keeps pitching like this, it will be a very, very short post season. All and all a very disappointing performance from our so called "Ace",,and the defense was pitiful too. A winnable game...and a lost opportunity.

You make it seem like he lost his concentration or something, and all he needed to do was "bear down."  A "true ace" wouldn't lose any games if it were that easy.  

[OriolesMagic83]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

That would have been before they changed the rules to help facilitate the running game.

Probably a combination of fewer baserunners, fewer attempts and lowered success rate league wide.

Not sure who he had as a catcher but that was also probably a factor.

Hasn't really made much of a difference whether McCann or Adley is catching him.  McCann has the stronger arm, and is far from the worst catcher at controlling the run game, and that hasn't stopped Burnes from being the worst pitcher.  Who was the NY catcher who gave up 10 steals in one game?  Imagine him w/ Burnes?  Every single would be a triple.

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, OriolesMagic83 said:

Hasn't really made much of a difference whether McCann or Adley is catching him.  McCann has the stronger arm, and is far from the worst catcher at controlling the run game, and that hasn't stopped Burnes from being the worst pitcher.  Who was the NY catcher who gave up 10 steals in one game?  Imagine him w/ Burnes?  Every single would be a triple.

I meant who he had when he gave up five all season.

Sorry I wasn't clear on that.

 

I'm not sold there is much value in looking at what he did before they changed the rules. 

[Rbiggs2525]

I’ll be glass half full guy. I thought at the start of season anything under 3.25 ERA 180 innings and 180 k’s was a good season. He has a chance at accomplishing all the goals. He has also saved the Orioles some money with this little hiccup. Now instead of one glaring ace, there will be 3 decent number 1/2 guys in Burnes, Snell and Fried. 250 million may now 200 million. I thought he pitched very well until his last inning. Seemed to take some velocity off for better location. Then the vaunted middle-middle breaking ball to Hernandez. 

[Jim'sKid26]

7 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

The defense was certainly a factor but nothibg that happened last night caused Burnes to give up those 2 homers, especially the one to Hernandez, which was an awful pitch that he crushed.

Burnes isn’t getting Ks and is giving up too many homers.  He did miss a lot of bats last night, so that may be a good sign.

 

Is he tipping his pitches?

I thought the CB to Teoscar wasn't that bad a pitch. He just seemed to be sitting CB.

The one to Shohei fooled him and he gave it a half swing. He's just so freaking good he can hit it out with one hand. 

[joelala]

1 minute ago, Jim'sKid26 said:

Is he tipping his pitches?

I thought the CB to Teoscar wasn't that bad a pitch. He just seemed to be sitting CB.

The one to Shohei fooled him and he gave it a half swing. He's just so freaking good he can hit it out with one hand. 

One of the guys on the radio mentioned that last night as a possibility. I would think they would have figured it out by now though since he’s been struggling for quite some time.