Does Trembley really believe this?

[hoosiers]

Couple observations:

1) Was the umpire in the right position on the Izzy call? Seems to me the umpire would have had a hard time seeing if Izzy touched the plate before he was tagged. I thought if Izzy had slid head first, he might have had a better shot at touching the plate before he was tagged, but, again, I think the ump was not in a position to determine if the front of the plate was touched before Molina applied a tag.

2) The BRob play was just a bad result to me. It appeared he may have hesitated to go, but that's my only small gripe. It was a bang-bang decision, the batter waved him in, just a bad break, IMO.

3) Izzy should have looked in to see if the ball was hit. Once he could not find the ball, I think he should have looked at his 3B coach for advice.

Unfortunate circumstances all around, IMO. Not anything to take out on any one player for an atrocious decision.

[DrungoHazewood]

True' date=' maybe he did but I doubt it because it seems like the same mistakes repeat themselves.[/b']

Or maybe yelling doesn't always fix problems.

think he comes off that way sometimes. He just reminds me of someone enamored with watching himself play more than playing the game.

You must be watching a different Brian Roberts.

[Tx Oriole]

I definitely see your point, and there is truth in what you say.

I also think there is a bit more to it than that. Two things:

• In an earlier post, you described the issue as DT not wishing to criticize his players in public. While that is true, I think his intention goes farther than simply wanting to *not* do something. I think it extends into wanting to do something: insulate his players from outside pressure and heat. It's not just wanting to not criticize in public, it's wanting to insert himself between the press and the players. During the years I was in ATL, Bobby Cox was very explicit that he viewed that as part of his job. (I am not saying that Bobby Cox ever said his job was to invent lame excuses, but he did say it was to insulate and protect his players from heat.) In this case, I think we can say that DT's verbal effort to insert himself between the player and criticism took the form of a thin story, but let's not misunderstand what his basic goal is when doing that.

  .

• I don't know what DT thinks, but I can imagine that currently he views his job as trying to manage the atmosphere so that the team can stay positive and hopeful despite losing until more kid-Ps show up and begin to make things better. In the past, both you and I have said that one thing we want to see this year is that the team continues to play with energy and enthusiasm throughout the year, that we don't want to see them with their heads down in the last month or two. This implies reversing the previous pattern, which was to play well early and get their brains beaten in later when the pitching fell apart. If this year reverses that, it implies the team tolerating getting their brains beaten in early and still holding their heads high later on. I can imagine that DT very much wants to keep the team as upbeat as possible, which may cause him to try to insulate them more than he did at first.

I'm not saying he's correct in giving a weak story abut Cesar's baserunning on that one play. I am only trying to get clarity for myself about what's what.

In the case if CI, I really think things are getting way overblown around here. In his brief time here, CI has shown himself to be competent, professional, and has delivered pretty much the kind of performance that we hoped and expected to get from him. To be making a federal case about a guy like CI running with his head down and losing awareness of the ball is making a mountain out of a molehill. Yes, we can say it cost us a run. Lots of things cost us a run. Nothing went wrong yesterday that a timely base hit would not have fixed. CI is not a dumb ballplayer, and IMO climbing all over one event involving CI is dumb. A big part of what's going on is that this place has established the view that baserunning mistakes are somehow DT's Waterloo, and therefore any time anything happens on the basepaths, people cite it as more evidence. If there is some pattern of CI doing dumb things, I missed it. Given the reaction around here, you'd think the guy is a moron when he's clearly not. So, what exactly is the point: that CI is a good ballplayer but playing for a team managed by DT made him goof up?

To me, the important thing about yesterday was to see DH go head to head with Pettitte and the MFY's in Yankee Stadium and do great, especially after a troublesome 1st inning when folks in the game thread were complaining from the beginning about all manner if things, including how DH wouldn't make it through the 4th or 5th. We also had 2 close plays at the plate in which a few inches made the unfortunate difference. I hate losing to the MFY's as much as anybody and more than some, but I was not ashamed of the Orioles yesterday. They started a kid-P who has just a half-season above AA, and they came within a few inches of making the MFY's waste a great outing by Andy Pettitte. It's one thing to be upset by a late-inning loss. It's another thing to focus on small matters and ignore what's important. If anybody thinks that what's important about yesterday is a proven player like CI losing awareness of the ball and making a mistake on the basepaths, well, I don't know what to say. I make the assumption that both CI and DT know what happened and wish it had not happened the way it did. Personally, I don't see the point of skewering either one them about it, but I realize that others think it's important to do that.

I like you post. As for Izzy or any player I would imagine it is quite easy to lose sight of a baseball.

[Frobby]

Did you even watch the game? The headfirst slide was into the pitcher. Molina threw to the pitcher on the wild pitch.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I guess he did, (my bad as I did see the play) but at any rate, that head first slide was beyond stupid which the point remains the same regardless of who was covering home.

That is a bang-bang play where Roberts is racing home just as the pitcher and the ball are arriving simulataneously. At that moment, BRob doesn't get to sit around thinking about which way to slide. He just acts on instinct. And in his case, does he ever not slide head first? People do what they are comfortable doing.

That aside, I'm not so sure a headfirst slide is dumb there. The ball is coming from the 1B side, you are running from the 3B side. A headfirst slide allows you to stay a few feet out to the 3B side of the plate, hopefully avoid a sweep tag and touch home as you go by. BRob tried that but the ball was there sufficiently soon that he had to slide a little too wide of home plate to touch it.

As I said before, to me the only problem with that play was that BRob hesitated before he took off for home.

[The Wedge]

You must be watching a different Brian Roberts.

Different team half the time, it seems.

[LookinUp]

This post captures the general spirit of many posts around here lately: DT is a bad manager because of how a guy who is perhaps our most accomplished baserunner chose to slide on one particular play.

Respectfully, I don't think that post in any way captures the general spirit of anything. OldFan just took an extremely close-minded position based on a single play. Who else is doing that? It really bugs me when posters group the opinions of many into categories based on the least common denominator.

Most of the people voicing displeasure with Trembley are pointing to the 2-year trends and the general lack of any change in that trend. Sure, we get frustrated when the same problems keep happening.

By the way, I thought the head-first slide was Roberts's only chance. I also think that both he and Izturis were out at home primarily because of very good plays by the Yankees. That stuff happens sometimes.

[Lucky Jim]

Respectfully, I don't think that post in any way captures the general spirit of anything. OldFan just took an extremely close-minded position based on a single play. Who else is doing that? It really bugs me when posters group the opinions of many into categories based on the least common denominator.

Most of the people voicing displeasure with Trembley are pointing to the 2-year trends and the general lack of any change in that trend. Sure, we get frustrated when the same problems keep happening.

By the way, I thought the head-first slide was Roberts's only chance. I also think that both he and Izturis were out at home primarily because of very good plays by the Yankees. That stuff happens sometimes.

It's the same thing as pigeon-holing those of us who are concerned about Guthrie's velocity as thinking he's "no good" and "being happier when we lose."

It was bad enough when Shack made broad generalizations about posters based on actual evidence. Now he's just lumping folks together based on fiction.

It's like one big Survivor competition to find the ideal "fan." But only Shack gets to vote. Wonder who's going to win?

[LookitsPuck]

I like you post. As for Izzy or any player I would imagine it is quite easy to lose sight of a baseball.

It is quite easy to lose sight of a baseball, and that's why Izturis made an idiotic move by not looking at the 3rd base coach. Izturis is not the best on the basepaths (he is a smart base stealer, though), but he needs to be looking at the 3rd base coach if he has no idea where the ball is. He also should be looking at the hitter on a hit and run. Two screwups by Izturis on one play. Not to mention his fish out of water look at/around 2nd base.

[Fan4Life]

I like you post. As for Izzy or any player I would imagine it is quite easy to lose sight of a baseball.

Look to 3b.... if your coach makes a mistake, it's on him.

[LookinUp]

It's the same thing as pigeon-holing those of us who are concerned about Guthrie's velocity as thinking he's "no good" and "being happier when we lose."

It was bad enough when Shack made broad generalizations about posters based on actual evidence. Now he's just lumping folks together based on fiction.

It's like one big Survivor competition to find the ideal "fan." But only Shack gets to vote. Wonder who's going to win?

In fairness, he's far from the only one who does this.

[The Wedge]

Look to 3b.... if your coach makes a mistake, it's on him.

And in this case, camera's caught Samuel. He was telling Iz to stay up.

[Lucky Jim]

In fairness, he's far from the only one who does this.

No. He's just the one who did it to me, yesterday. Repeated it in another thread today. And then did something similar w/ O5F.

My own "availability bias."

[Fan4Life]

And in this case, camera's caught Samuel. He was telling Iz to stay up.

Really? Heck what's all the arguing about? We're fundamentally sound. Just have poor coaching... Can I start a thread on coaching? Please, please huh can I can I?

[ccbird]

It's almost to the point of insulting your fans' intelligence.

What's insulting is the fans thinking they understand the game of baseball know how to manage this team better than DT. I love Frobby, but suggesting DT doesn't understand the running game is laughable. Listen, I'm as frustrated as everyone else with the way this team plays the game and ultimately DT should and will be held responsible but this is not a man who is in over his head.

[Skeletor]

What's insulting is the fans thinking they understand the game of baseball know how to manage this team better than DT. I love Frobby, but suggesting DT doesn't understand the running game is laughable. Listen, I'm as frustrated as everyone else with the way this team plays the game and ultimately DT should and will be held responsible but this is not a man who is in over his head.

Right. You know what, we are the WORST baserunning team in baseball by a WIDE margin. I think it's obvious he's either not understanding the running game or he's unable to corral his players. I won't bow down to DT.

Yeah, obviously this organization knows what they're doing based on this long run of success we've had and the stellar play we witness night after night.