MLB.com article with Angelos quotes

[Sports Guy]

Do you think they'll get to this point though?

I think the payroll will get that high...But I don't think they will ever do what they need to do on an amateur level..at least as long as PA is the owner.

[Frobby]

I think it's time to stop arguing about what a bad owner Angelos was in the past, and focus on what he is doing now. To me, it's evident he is letting Andy MacPhail run the show. If the O's can rise to contention soon, the mistakes Angelos made in the 90's and for a good portion of the last decade will seem less relevant. Steinbrenner screwed up the Yankees for a good 15 years, and who remembers that now?

[SilentJames]

I think the next operative question is how long will Angelos remain the primary owner?

Last year I said three years putting his last year of ownership 2012. I think I am sticking by that.

[Going Underground]

I think the payroll will get that high...But I don't think they will ever do what they need to do on an amateur level..at least as long as PA is the owner.

You used to work for the O's and I deal with them somewhat because of my profession. Peter is getting old and not in the best of health.I guess his kids

would take over soon. I have dealt with his kids and I am not sure that this might get better soon. I was wondering what you thought of his sons?

[Sports Guy]

You used to work for the O's and I deal with them somewhat because of my profession. Peter is getting old and not in the best of health.I guess his kids

would take over soon. I have dealt with his kids and I am not sure that this might get better soon. I was wondering what you thought of his sons?

I know nothing about Lou....He has no involvement with the team whatsoever...unless that has recently changed.

John knows nothing about baseball and when I was working there, he had no say in anything baseball related...He was involved in sales more than anything...My managers and the sales managers would have meetings with him all the time...He was kind of like the top guy when it came to that.

I never met him but based on things that were always said about him, I think it would be very bad for us if he became the owner. It would almost be like having the family of an evil Caesar taking over Rome.

I don't think things would get better. I think we would have to get lucky, as we pretty much have to do now.

[Going Underground]

John is the guy. Louis really does not set foot in the warehouse that often. The sales people I know think John is a pompous person. We can only hope when it is time to sell a Mason or Geipe can buy the team.

[hoosiers]

he never spent on the draft until recently...

This is not true at all. PA spent for 7 first/supplemental first rounders in 99. He spent for 3 first/supplemental firsts in 1998 and several extra first/supplemental first rounders in 2000 and 2001. I believe our total spend in the US draft from 1998-2001 would have to be in the top ten if the top five.

Criticism that is valid is that the organization has fallen far behind in international scouting and spending well-above slot on the US draft on a consistent basis (this has changed recently).

[NewMarketSean]

I wish people would quit saying this. Look, he deserves all the blame you can muster for not fixing it until now. But the franchise was in the ground when he got it. Except for 1 fluke year, it had been for years and years...

And I wish people would stop saying this.

Angelos saved the Orioles and then destroyed them. He restored a derelict house and then let it go to waste again. The state the franchise was in before he got here is meaningless. Throughout the 90's the O's were a competitive team. His lame excuses about economics ruining the Orioles are BS. He thought he knew better than his GM's and then ran the team into the ground to "prove" that the area couldn't support 2 teams.

People should move on re: Angelos, but when he spouts off some crap to distance himself from ruining the franchise, people are going to dredge up the past.

[Shopay]

I think it's time to stop arguing about what a bad owner Angelos was in the past, and focus on what he is doing now. To me, it's evident he is letting Andy MacPhail run the show. If the O's can rise to contention soon, the mistakes Angelos made in the 90's and for a good portion of the last decade will seem less relevant. Steinbrenner screwed up the Yankees for a good 15 years, and who remembers that now?

Exactly. At least it appears that PA finally figured it out. Let's hope he remains on the sidelines and let's AM turn the O's back into a team that competes on a yearly basis.

[NewMarketSean]

I think it's time to stop arguing about what a bad owner Angelos was in the past, and focus on what he is doing now. To me, it's evident he is letting Andy MacPhail run the show. If the O's can rise to contention soon, the mistakes Angelos made in the 90's and for a good portion of the last decade will seem less relevant. Steinbrenner screwed up the Yankees for a good 15 years, and who remembers that now?

He said he is happy with the results MacPhail is getting. I am guessing that factors in money spent & money made. If Angelos was referring to the young talent on the team -- and being happy about that -- he should have said that. So Angelos' quotes are open to interpretation and I am taking that as Angelos being happy that MacPhail is spending less for a few less wins which means more revenue.

[Guest rochester]

Unless attendance around baseball is down 49% since 1997, then Angelos' management of the business has driven away customers.

That's the same strawman argument you continue to make which has no basis in reality. Notice by my putting Angelos at the bottom of the pile, it also puts him behind Eli Jacobs, but that puts a hole in your strawman. Doesn't it?

Ditto.

Way, way too simplistic to make this blanket statement. Yes, the bad product is a factor, but if you don't believe that The Ravens and (especially) Washington getting a team have been just as important then IMO you should think again.

When OPACY opened it was the "cool thing" in the DC area to go to. IIRC I think 40% attendance came from there. Anyway, the stands were full of yuppies talking about their jobs in DC, or talking shop with clients, or being part of the "in-crowd" especially if you had good seats. All that happened was that it wore off. Add on the Nationals and Ravens and budgets have gone elsewhere. What I feel bad about is that, even with the new stadium, the Nationals didn't get that "place to be" attendance lift.

Finally, I agree that the quality of the team(s) do have an effect of keeping away the bandwagoneers. Once (if:eek:) they start contending the attendance will pop.

[LookinUp]

Exactly. At least it appears that PA finally figured it out. Let's hope he remains on the sidelines and let's AM turn the O's back into a team that competes on a yearly basis.

I don't really believe he figured anything out. I think he hired a good person, and he's happy with how things are going. However, I doubt he could make a similarly competent hire if AM decided to head off to the commissionner's office.

[SilentJames]

And I wish people would stop saying this.

Angelos saved the Orioles and then destroyed them. He restored a derelict house and then let it go to waste again. The state the franchise was in before he got here is meaningless. Throughout the 90's the O's were a competitive team. His lame excuses about economics ruining the Orioles are BS. He thought he knew better than his GM's and then ran the team into the ground to "prove" that the area couldn't support 2 teams.

People should move on re: Angelos, but when he spouts off some crap to distance himself from ruining the franchise, people are going to dredge up the past.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/BAL/

The Orioles were not very competitive between 83 and Angelos' takeover.

Angelos DID ruin the team with meddling and mismanagement, no question about that - but let's not pretend that he inherited a perennial winner. Aside from a couple good years the decade between 83 and 93 was not a good decade for the Orioles.

I have always looked at Angelos as a tragic figure rather than the malicious super-villain bent on destroying the franchise.

Angelos genuinely believes everything he did was for the good of the team. People who know him will tell you that. But the road to hell is paved in good intentions and the Orioles are where they are now. Thankfully Angelos finally learned his lesson and the Orioles seem to be well on the road to recovery.

[NewMarketSean]

http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/BAL/

The Orioles were not very competitive between 83 and Angelos' takeover.

Angelos DID ruin the team with meddling and mismanagement, no question about that - but let's not pretend that he inherited a perennial winner. Aside from a couple good years the decade between 83 and 93 was not a good decade for the Orioles.

I have always looked at Angelos as a tragic figure rather than the malicious super-villain bent on destroying the franchise.

Angelos genuinely believes everything he did was for the good of the team. People who know him will tell you that. But the road to hell is paved in good intentions and the Orioles are where they are now. Thankfully Angelos finally learned his lesson and the Orioles seem to be well on the road to recovery.

I am not disagreeing with the Orioles being a bad organization pre-Angelos. I am saying that it doesn't matter when talking about Angelos' legacy as owner. Angelos improved the Orioles a ton when he took over. That and OPACY getting built. He was the team's blessing, and it's curse.

[Old#5fan]

Someone decipher this part for me:

What is PGA saying is the exception to the rule? The Rays? Maybe I'm reading this wrong but it appears he is saying that without spending a ton of money in the East, you can't consistently be competitive. At the same time, he is saying that we are not one of those teams that can spend a lot. So I guess we shouldn't expect to consistently be competitive?

Am I drawing the wrong conclusion here?

Of course that is what he has been saying and it corresponds precisely to the results we have been seeing on the field with the Orioles for years and years. Essentially Angelos sort of gave up after the wire to wire year where he outspent everyone and still didn't reach the WS. The Belle signing and results were what changed his spending habits for good. He is just being a realist here and you are absolutely not drawing anything but the correct conclusion here. Why are you even doubting yourself?