MLB.com article with Angelos quotes

[SilentJames]

I am not disagreeing with the Orioles being a bad organization pre-Angelos. I am saying that it doesn't matter when talking about Angelos' legacy as owner. Angelos improved the Orioles a ton when he took over. That and OPACY getting built. He was the team's blessing, and it's curse.

Indeed, but some like to create this fantasy that the Orioles were at the top of the heap before Angelos came into the picture, when the reality is pretty much the opposite.

That is why I say a tragic figure. Angelos found success - then flew a bit too close to the sun. Needlessly poetic - yes. But I think it is a pretty apt analogy.

[NewMarketSean]

Indeed, but some like to create this fantasy that the Orioles were at the top of the heap before Angelos came into the picture, when the reality is pretty much the opposite.

That is why I say a tragic figure. Angelos found success - then flew a bit too close to the sun. Needlessly poetic - yes. But I think it is a pretty apt analogy.

Agreed 100%.

[Guest rochester]

http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/BAL/

The Orioles were not very competitive between 83 and Angelos' takeover.

Angelos DID ruin the team with meddling and mismanagement, no question about that - but let's not pretend that he inherited a perennial winner. Aside from a couple good years the decade between 83 and 93 was not a good decade for the Orioles.

I have always looked at Angelos as a tragic figure rather than the malicious super-villain bent on destroying the franchise.

Angelos genuinely believes everything he did was for the good of the team. People who know him will tell you that. But the road to hell is paved in good intentions and the Orioles are where they are now. Thankfully Angelos finally learned his lesson and the Orioles seem to be well on the road to recovery.

This pretty much sums it up IMO. First and foremost though is the city, then the team. I defend him (on that basis) because I was privy to his reasons to why he bought the team and frankly, was not completely surprised by the meddling. He is a very complicated man - extremely generous but, at the same time, a micro manager in a field (baseball) he had no business micro-managing. Making bad hiring decisions did not help nor does his way of relating to ego-centric people. He also can be loyal to a fault, if there is such a thing. Until AM, I do not believe he fully trusted anyone to run the baseball side - in some cases one can not blame him, on the others? well, the past dozen years answer that.

From my experience he wants to make money which, of course, any competent business man wants - the O's were/are a good investment. On the other hand, nothing would make him happier than riding in a WS victory parade down Pratt Street.

Right now, IMO he "trusts" AM - the only ? is where AM takes the team.

[Frobby]

Indeed, but some like to create this fantasy that the Orioles were at the top of the heap before Angelos came into the picture, when the reality is pretty much the opposite.

Agreed 100%.

Top of the heap, no, but they did have winning seasons in 1992 and 1993 immediately before he bought the team, and in 1994 when he left the existing management intact. So, I wouldn't call that the opposite of top of the heap.

[SilentJames]

Top of the heap, no, but they did have winning seasons in 1992 and 1993 immediately before he bought the team, and in 1994 when he left the existing management intact. So, I wouldn't call that the opposite of top of the heap.

But the eighties were very very poor to the Orioles and saw the complete dismantling of the minor league system.

[Sports Guy]

But the eighties were very very poor to the Orioles and saw the complete dismantling of the minor league system.

And as we have seen, it takes very little time to get that farm system back.

Look, enough excuses about the man...He is awful at being an owner...What happened in the 80s has no bearing on him whatsoever.

He is the sole reason this franchise is a joke...He has/had no idea what he is doing yet he felt that he did. His sons have no idea what they are doing, yet he feels they do.

Call him whatever you want to call him...tyrant, tragic figure, pathetic, whatever....The bottom line is, as an owner of the Baltimore Orioles, he has been awful.

He is a fantastic lawyer...The stuff he does for charities and the community is great and probably why he cherishes guys like Markakis and BRob. His wife is one of the classiest and nicest people you will ever meet.

But, as an owner, he is awful.

Hopefully, he is changing...While I think AM has full reign, I do not believe PA is willing to sink the dollars into FA and international scouting/signings/facilities that is needed....even if AM wants that.

[SilentJames]

And as we have seen, it takes very little time to get that farm system back.

Look, enough excuses about the man...He is awful at being an owner...What happened in the 80s has no bearing on him whatsoever.

He is the sole reason this franchise is a joke...He has/had no idea what he is doing yet he felt that he did. His sons have no idea what they are doing, yet he feels they do.

Call him whatever you want to call him...tyrant, tragic figure, pathetic, whatever....The bottom line is, as an owner of the Baltimore Orioles, he has been awful.

He is a fantastic lawyer...The stuff he does for charities and the community is great and probably why he cherishes guys like Markakis and BRob. His wife is one of the classiest and nicest people you will ever meet.

But, as an owner, he is awful.

Hopefully, he is changing...While I think AM has full reign, I do not believe PA is willing to sink the dollars into FA and international scouting/signings/facilities that is needed....even if AM wants that.

I don't argue with any of that. And I am not making excuses, I am interested in an accurate history that is all.

[Sports Guy]

I don't argue with any of that. And I am not making excuses, I am interested in an accurate history that is all.

That's fine...but the history of what things were like before he took over is meaningless when judging him as an owner...I feel that some people try to use that as an excuse and give him a pass because of it.

[hoosiers]

Hopefully, he is changing...While I think AM has full reign, I do not believe PA is willing to sink the dollars into FA and international scouting/signings/facilities that is needed....even if AM wants that.

I do not believe PA has had a GM to build an appropriate international infrastructure (facilities, scouts) in order to invest competently in talent - until AM. I expectation is that PA will invest internationally at AM's direction and I expect AM will build a top half of baseball international talent machine.

We'll see.

[Sports Guy]

I do not believe PA has had a GM to build an appropriate international infrastructure (facilities, scouts) in order to invest competently in talent - until AM. I expectation is that PA will invest internationally at AM's direction and I expect AM will build a top half of baseball international talent machine.

We'll see.

And whose fault is that?

AM will be gone before that happens IMO.

[Going Underground]

What about our Spring Training facilities? They have been a joke for many years. The minor league complex many hours away and the field and clubhouse piss poor. We have been looking for a new home for ages.

[Sports Guy]

What about our Spring Training facilities? They have been a joke for many years. The minor league complex many hours away and the field and clubhouse piss poor. We have been looking for a new home for ages.

Yep...every aspect, under PA, has pretty much been terrible.

The one thing the Orioles excel at is customer service...I will give them credit for that.

[Miller192]

Of course that is what he has been saying and it corresponds precisely to the results we have been seeing on the field with the Orioles for years and years. Essentially Angelos sort of gave up after the wire to wire year where he outspent everyone and still didn't reach the WS. The Belle signing and results were what changed his spending habits for good. He is just being a realist here and you are absolutely not drawing anything but the correct conclusion here. Why are you even doubting yourself?

What he said kind of reminded me of what Ravens President Dick Cass said about the Ravens window closing. He caught hell from all angles on it and had to retract it.

Angelos' sort of painted a picture that fans shouldn't expect to be consistently competitive. I don't know that's the message you want your fans to hear.

[olehippi]

That's fine...but the history of what things were like before he took over is meaningless when judging him as an owner...I feel that some people try to use that as an excuse and give him a pass because of it.

Using this analogy, what happened yesterday is equally meaningless....only what is happening now and what might happen tomorrow have meaning.

Endlessly harping about the past is fruitless. Too many people don't seem to realize that you can't change history. But you can learn from it....which apparently Angelos has....and in the process make the future better. But incredibly, there are those who won't even give him credit for doing that.

[Going Underground]

Endlessly harping about the past is fruitless. Too many people don't seem to realize that you can't change history. But you can learn from it....which apparently Angelos has....and in the process make the future better. But incredibly, there are those who won't even give him credit for doing that.

I hope he has learned from the past. MacPhail as Oriole GM, has kept the payroll low. We have not signed a big time free agent. Also if some of our better prospects pan out,we will have to give them a big chunk of change. We will see if Angelos steps up to the plate or does the poor mouth can't compete routine.