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Fahey looked great at shortstop last night!

Cider Jim

By Cider Jim
in Orioles Talk

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Flosman Major Leaguer

Flosman

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One of the interesting side notes on this debate is how rabid the two sides are. I actually think he ends up being a starter somewhere at some point in his career. I think he will end up with a 750 OPS in a year or two, I also think the will play a GG level of defense all the while doing all the little things right. I agree that if Miggy has the range he had even last year it is not even close in determining if he should be moved. But today I think we are a better team if a move can be made and Miggy stay happy.

One thing I have already noticed about him is he makes plays look more routine than they are. Last night he made a play easily then I realized he had BOTH feet on the 1b side of second. The play he made when he played third a few weeks ago was just spectacular.

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Mackus Hangout Grand Counsel

Mackus

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I think he will end up with a 750 OPS in a year or two

What could possibly make you think that?

His career minor leage OPS is .660 and he's never been over .716. If he can get to a .750 OPS then he'll be a worthy starter, but its considerably more likely that he stays in the .650 range, which is horrid and clearly not worth being a starter, even for a gold-glove winning SS.

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DrungoHazewood Hangout Grand Counsel

DrungoHazewood

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What could possibly make you think that?

His career minor leage OPS is .660 and he's never been over .716. If he can get to a .750 OPS then he'll be a worthy starter, but its considerably more likely that he stays in the .650 range, which is horrid and clearly not worth being a starter, even for a gold-glove winning SS.

That's not exactly true. If I could have a gold glove shortstop anchoring my defense I'd take a .650 OPS, as long as I didn't have Jeff Conine playing first base.

An average SS has an OPS around .725. The difference between a generic shortstop and a really great fielding shortstop is probably in the neighborhood of .050 or .075 OPS points.

I've seen no evidence that Fahey is going to be a gold glove shortstop, and like Mackus said, his minor league performance suggests his current offensive level is pretty close to what we should get.

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Flosman Major Leaguer

Flosman

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What could possibly make you think that?

His career minor leage OPS is .660 and he's never been over .716. If he can get to a .750 OPS then he'll be a worthy starter, but its considerably more likely that he stays in the .650 range, which is horrid and clearly not worth being a starter, even for a gold-glove winning SS.

Maybe the fact that he has improved dramatically any year he has stayed at the same level. He seems to make contact and is the type I feel that does what it takes to be the best that he can. I don't think he will be great offensively but he will be good enough for someone to let him be a starter for a while.

BTW don't look now but his ops is 746 for June and is 751 for the season at OPACY.

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66-70-83-?? Major Leaguer

66-70-83-??

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What could possibly make you think that?

His career minor leage OPS is .660 and he's never been over .716. If he can get to a .750 OPS then he'll be a worthy starter, but its considerably more likely that he stays in the .650 range, which is horrid and clearly not worth being a starter, even for a gold-glove winning SS.

Then you have also just ruled out Hall Of Fame Shortstops such as Luis Aparacio, Phil Rizzuto, Rabbit Maranville, Joe Tinker,and Ozzie Smith from your team. :eek:

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Flosman Major Leaguer

Flosman

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So we can call him up every June and have him play only at home.

The question was asked what makes me think a 750 ops is even possible for him. My answer was factual and relevant. The naysayers like to say he has a 660 ops in the minors, actually I think he has never had a ops under 700 after the second year at a level. If there was not a progression at each level I would agree that he should regress to his Mean, but that is not the pattern his career has followed.

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Intrepid1 Newbie

Intrepid1

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Why is everyone judging Fahey as though he won't get any better or fill out physically? What is he 22 for crying out loud? Improve the offense at 1st and LF and you could easily "carry" Fahey.At least you know Fahey is going to show up and play everyday without trying to be the GM in the off season. Or create a drag on the team with his mood swings.The players that people on this board are down on is simply amazing sometimes.

Boston & the White Sox both have excellent defensive SS's who don't hit any better than Fahey. Maybe they know something you don't.
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now Perennial All-Star

now

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An average SS has an OPS around .725. The difference between a generic shortstop and a really great fielding shortstop is probably in the neighborhood of .050 or .075 OPS points.

Sounds as if you have your own "chart" of defensive/offensive OPS equivalences. Care to share more of it with us? ;)

BTW, seeing Fahey in LF yet again brings up the point that really starts this whole dilemma. If people talk about Tejada's "greatest value" being at SS, then surely it should be obvious that Fahey's "greatest value" is NOT in LF. Both are in the lineup offensively, but both are hurting the club defensively by playing those mismatched positions.

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Mackus Hangout Grand Counsel

Mackus

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Then you have also just ruled out Hall Of Fame Shortstops such as Luis Aparacio, Phil Rizzuto, Rabbit Maranville, Joe Tinker,and Ozzie Smith from your team. :eek:

A .650 OPS now is about .075 points lower than average for a SS, according to Drungo.

How many of those guys were .075 OPS points below an average shortstop throughout their careers?

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RShack Hangout Grand Counsel

RShack

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Then you have also just ruled out Hall Of Fame Shortstops such as Luis Aparacio, Phil Rizzuto, Rabbit Maranville, Joe Tinker,and Ozzie Smith from your team. :eek:

Nah, he didn't do that... Cal did that... it used to be that you didn't expect much bat from SS, and whatever you got was a bonus... everybody used to buy that... until Cal... he's why guys like ARod grew up trying to be SS's... before Cal, they wouldn't have thought like that...

Cal did for SS-hitting what Michael Jordon did for basketball players hanging in mid-air... it changed what everybody after them knows is possible...

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