A disturbing trend in the FO

[RShack]

Are you saying that at the trade deadline last year with all the lack of decent hitting catchers in the League that we couldn't have gotten anything for him?

Maybe there's no interest in him NOW but we were out of it before the deadline last year. And then we went a signed Hernandez this fall. So why did we hang onto Javy? I don't get it. You can't tell me someone wouldn't have wanted a decent hitting catcher last summer. And his value was still high then.

No, you don't rely on hindsight much... Who knew they were gonna sign Ramon?

Javy was the #1 C, we had nobody to replace him, plus he was out with a broken hand.

[Flosman]

The Orioles didn't even know what to ask for Ryan...That we know. There is no way that package would be the past we could get.

We know that was reported but I am sure they countered with something that was rejected. This is one of those leaks that other FOs willspin out there to make a FO accept a deal. Maybe they were given a list to choose from and no one on the list was acceptable. That very well could have been the level of the best offer made. Deadline rental deals usually do not have huge can't miss guys involved and BJ is a bull pen guy reducing his value to SOME teams.

[AgentOrange]

Are you saying that at the trade deadline last year with all the lack of decent hitting catchers in the League that we couldn't have gotten anything for him?

Maybe there's no interest in him NOW but we were out of it before the deadline last year. And then we went a signed Hernandez this fall. So why did we hang onto Javy? I don't get it. You can't tell me someone wouldn't have wanted a decent hitting catcher last summer. And his value was still high then.

Who knew he would sign here at the end of the year?

If we lose Javy at the deadline last year, we are making a huge mistake.

As early as 5 days before the deadline, we were 3.5 games back of first. There was no indication of us totally tanking the way we did. It is easy to look back on it now as a dumb "non move". I am not saying you did as such, because I clearly know where you stand on the topic.

In this case, however, I would have to disagree that it was as clear cut to trade Javy at the deadline as you make it out to be.

[Sports Guy]

We know that was reported but I am sure they countered with something that was rejected. This is one of those leaks that other FOs willspin out there to make a FO accept a deal. Maybe they were given a list to choose from and no one on the list was acceptable. That very well could have been the level of the best offer made. Deadline rental deals usually do not have huge can't miss guys involved and BJ is a bull pen guy reducing his value to SOME teams.

Wrong...Look at what Urbina brought back from the Marlins or when Wickman netted Sexson.

Teams overvalue closers, especially teams with shaky back ends of the BP who are competing.

[Sapper]

Who knew he would sign here at the end of the year?

If we lose Javy at the deadline last year, we are making a huge mistake.

As early as 5 days before the deadline, we were 3.5 games back of first. There was no indication of us totally tanking the way we did.....

No indication? How about the whole month of June? If anyone thought we were contenders at the deadline last year, they were deluded.

[davearm]

I wasn't the first to write hindsight , but since you're not shy about pointing out how right you were & how early you said it, let me say this: what's the point? Did you really start a whole thread just to show everyone how smart you are & how you know more than the FO? If so, then let me be the first to agree with you, based upon the historical evidence of your own post :002_ssuprised: you've offered in defense of yourself being the smartest.

If, on the other hand, you were making a legitimate critique of the way the FO does business, shouldn't we be on to discussing which from among the players on our roster now we should be trying to move? What good does it do us to rehash last offseason? (when, for the record, Javy & Tejada were not, for all intensive purposes, trade-able) Shouldn't we be looking ahead?

Sapper, this is exactly what I'm getting at.

You are going to great lengths to establish how prescient you were way back in the offseason or whatever, when you were advocating trading all of these various players who were not traded, and have since lost value.

If the O's would only listen to you, they wouldn't have this problem of never being able to sell high, you say.

OK then. So tell us who they should sell high on now.

Don't give us names of the dregs whose trade value is minimal. Give us the desirables from the organization -- the guys other teams will line up for. The guys that most of the folks on here consider key parts of the O's future, and wouldn't think to trade.

Who from that group should the O's be selling high on? In your post #78, I see nobody.

[Sports Guy]

Sapper, this is exactly what I'm getting at.

You are going to great lengths to establish how prescient you were way back in the offseason or whatever, when you were advocating trading all of these various players who were not traded, and have since lost value.

If the O's would only listen to you, they wouldn't have this problem of never being able to sell high, you say.

OK then. So tell us who they should sell high on now.

Don't give us names of the dregs whose trade value is minimal. Give us the desirables from the organization -- the guys other teams will line up for. The guys that most of the folks on here consider key parts of the O's future, and wouldn't think to trade.

Who from that group should the O's be selling high on? In your post #78, I see nobody.

Radhames Liz.

[AgentOrange]

No indication? How about the whole month of June? If anyone thought we were contenders at the deadline last year, they were deluded.

Dude, we went on a serious run early, and were still only 3.5 back from 1st.

There was still a lot of hope we would break out of it and make a run late. At the same time, we were in discussion to get Burnett from Florida to be buyers at the deadline. Selling off wasn't anything we were thinking about as the trade deadline was coming up.

[ejf1025]

Radhames Liz.

I doubt that teams are lining up for Radhames Liz.

[Sapper]

Dude, we went on a serious run early, and were still only 3.5 back from 1st.

There was still a lot of hope we would break out of it and make a run late. At the same time, we were in discussion to get Burnett from Florida to be buyers at the deadline. Selling off wasn't anything we were thinking about as the trade deadline was coming up.

There were quite a few people here who were quite aware we were not contenders before the deadline. So what do you mean "we"?

[AgentOrange]

There were quite a few people here who were quite aware we were not contenders before the deadline. So what do you mean "we"?

Come on man, I am not talking about opinions of the OH nation. I am talking about the Baltimore Orioles Organization and the reason we (they) didn't entertain a "sell high" philosophy when trying to trade Javy Lopez.

[Sapper]

Sapper, this is exactly what I'm getting at.

You are going to great lengths to establish how prescient you were way back in the offseason or whatever, when you were advocating trading all of these various players who were not traded, and have since lost value.

If the O's would only listen to you, they wouldn't have this problem of never being able to sell high, you say.

OK then. So tell us who they should sell high on now.

Don't give us names of the dregs whose trade value is minimal. Give us the desirables from the organization -- the guys other teams will line up for. The guys that most of the folks on here consider key parts of the O's future, and wouldn't think to trade.

Who from that group should the O's be selling high on? In your post #78, I see nobody.

I'm confused. Are you saying I'm wrong about this organization holding onto some players too long? Or are you just trying to put me on the spot now.

To be honest it's hard to say who we should "sell high" on now, other than Tejada (who is also probably dropping), because we don't have too many players anyone wants anymore. Go back 1 year and that was not the case at all.

[wildcard]

This theme is starting to get REALLY old for me: Holding onto players too long instead of trading for valuable young players.

Guys I SURELY would have traded a long time ago when their value was high:

Mora

Lopez

Lopez

Ryan

Tejada

others I may have traded last year while their value was high (and if you can search that far back here, you'll see I suggested trading these guys last year):

Roberts

Bedard

This team will never get better unless we start taking advantage of other teams' farm systems in addition to our own. Let them get Glenn Davis'ed for a change.

I think you are one for seven with your ideas here.

Mora -would not trade him. He is part of a winning O's team in 2007-2008.

Lopez -Javy - the problem here is that Beattie back loaded the contract and no one wanted a 35 year old catcher with an $8.5M contract this past winter. Flanagan would have traded him if they could. He has no market value because he is dragging that contract around with him.

Lopez - RLo - Answer Mora's question. If you trade RLo, "who was going to pitch for us?" during the first half of this year. You think you were going to trade him for a better major league ready pitcher. Dream on.

Ryan - This one you have right. When the O's knew they couldn't sign him in March of 2005 they should have traded him. BB's point is a good one, but I think they could have made a good trade for major league talent for him. We never know how the prospects will turn out until at least three years down the road. There is more risk with prospect then major leagues or near major leaguers.

Tejada - He is the O's center piece. If the O's make the right moves this off season they are contender. If they trade Miggy their next chance to contend is probably 2009. Where do the O's get a MVP and consistent All-Star for $12M a year. Most of them don't even want to talk to a 8 year losing team.

Roberts - The future. You don't trade him.

Bedard - They finally develop an ace and now you want to trade him. My goodness. The idea is to contend, not be a farm system of other contenders.

[Sapper]

Come on man, I am not talking about opinions of the OH nation. I am talking about the Baltimore Orioles Organization and the reason we (they) didn't entertain a "sell high" philosophy when trying to trade Javy Lopez.

I think the collective wisdom of the OH Nation far exceeds that of the brain trust of the fron office.

In the end, though, at the deadline, we didn't do ANYTHING. Again caught in between rebuilding and competing in order to sell tickets at minimum possible payroll. That's the Angelos way.

[clapdiddy]

I think the collective wisdom of the OH Nation far exceeds that of the brain trust of the fron office.

In the end, though, at the deadline, we didn't do ANYTHING. Again caught in between rebuilding and competing in order to sell tickets at minimum possible payroll. That's the Angelos way.

Can I get an "AMEN"?