Unbelievable... 0% Graduation rate '97-'00

[Ruzious]

My statement still stands.

The players in question are, mostly, doing what the University of Maryland was preparing them for: a career in their chosen field.

If I got a job offer from a newspaper and dropped out of Towson, does that reflect poorly on Towson because of my decision? Should I pay back the grants I'm getting from them and the state?

All the graduation rates do is perpetuate a lie so that the university presidents who finance other educational pursuits through the sports involved can sleep at night without feeling as though they sold their souls to the green-backed devil.

It's just another example of the hypocrisy of "college" athletics, and if you are going to blame Gary Williams for a group of players who are doing what they went to college to learn how to do, then I really don't know what to tell you.

Thank you. Well said.

It's 10 student athletes that's important - not some single statistic that used in a vacuum is meaningless. 10 out of 10 have played professionally. The vast majority of people get a college education to improve their chances at a profession. So tell me how the University failed them.

Speaking of hypocrisy, why is there just an outcry about basketball athletes? College baseball players left colleges to go pro at a far greater rate than basketball players for many years - with almost zero public outcry. And the vast majority of them get paid peanuts - never making decent money playing baseball.

[inmn]

My statement still stands.

The players in question are, mostly, doing what the University of Maryland was preparing them for: a career in their chosen field.

If I got a job offer from a newspaper and dropped out of Towson, does that reflect poorly on Towson because of my decision? Should I pay back the grants I'm getting from them and the state?

All the graduation rates do is perpetuate a lie so that the university presidents who finance other educational pursuits through the sports involved can sleep at night without feeling as though they sold their souls to the green-backed devil.

It's just another example of the hypocrisy of "college" athletics, and if you are going to blame Gary Williams for a group of players who are doing what they went to college to learn how to do, then I really don't know what to tell you.

Terp,

The majority of Md's players don't get a chance to play in the NBA or even Europe, of those that do very few will make enough money to be set for life. Why do you think Booth went back to school-Md wouldn't hire him without a degree. Without a degree they can't get a job coaching or teaching in high school or college so they end up bouncing around the developmental league like Mouton or running a rec center like Cephas-hardly a career. Invariably all of them regret not taking advantage of their college experience. If there is any hypocrisy in college athletics it is in not preparing kids for life after sports. Believe it or not universities exist for education not sports and the guys that make the rules are acamedicians not coaches. In my experience your decision to drop out of Towson does not refect poorly upon them but you-and it is something you are more likely than not to regret as you age.

I don't know of any schools that "finances educational pursuits through sports" unless you are referring to alumni giving. Atheletic Departments at the D1 level are almost always self supporting or as in the case at MD for a few years in the red and borrowing from the university. I will submit to you many, many more college presidents lose sleep over athletes flunking out or being arrested.

[geschinger]

Thank you. Well said.

It's 10 student athletes that's important - not some single statistic that used in a vacuum is meaningless. 10 out of 10 have played professionally. The vast majority of people get a college education to improve their chances at a profession. So tell me how the University failed them.

Speaking of hypocrisy, why is there just an outcry about basketball athletes? College baseball players left colleges to go pro at a far greater rate than basketball players for many years - with almost zero public outcry. And the vast majority of them get paid peanuts - never making decent money playing baseball.

Baseball players graduate at a higher rate than basketball players so I'm not sure the relevance of bringing up that sport.. I do disagree that there is an outcry about basketball graduation rates. If Maryland was at anything other than 0% it doesn't get much attention. It's kind of like the O's 30-3 loss earlier this year. Give up 20 runs and it's a bad night, give up 30 and it's a national embarrassment. Hit the magic 0% mark and you are going to get attention you'd never get even if they'd only graduated 5 or 10%.

[BaltimoreTerp]

I don't know of any schools that "finances educational pursuits through sports" unless you are referring to alumni giving. Atheletic Departments at the D1 level are almost always self supporting or as in the case at MD for a few years in the red and borrowing from the university. I will submit to you many, many more college presidents lose sleep over athletes flunking out or being arrested.

That's my point. They are self-supporting, so the colleges don't have to pay for them. And do you think all of the bowl/tournament money really stays within the athletic department?

[Eight]

Thank you. Well said.

It's 10 student athletes that's important - not some single statistic that used in a vacuum is meaningless. 10 out of 10 have played professionally. The vast majority of people get a college education to improve their chances at a profession. So tell me how the University failed them.

Precisely. What does it matter that Juan Dixon didn't get his degree in Family Education (or maybe it was Crim) now that he's in the NBA. The majority of the players in question went to the NBA. And all but one or maybe two are playing pro ball somewhere right now.

The University doesn't allow athletes (or anyone) to finish up degree work online like many other institutions do - UNC for one. If that changes, we'd see the grad rate rise. But to expect that guys working out to become NBA players are going to stay in school until the end of May and/or come back to College Park in the offseason is ridiculous. It's not going to happen.

Another thing to remember is that the players can come back after their eligibility expires and finish the requisite course work. Booth didn't have his degree, but he went back and got it so he could do going into coaching. The academics will always be there. Players have a limited window to maximize their earning potential in pro ball and to expect them to do otherwise is a disservice.

For those who think this is a big deal what specifically should the University and the Athletic Dept./Coaching staff do differently in order to facilitate higher graduation rates?

[inmn]

That's my point. They are self-supporting, so the colleges don't have to pay for them. And do you think all of the bowl/tournament money really stays within the athletic department?

Terp,

Come on.....

Yes-first of all most schools after expenses break even or lose on bowls unless it is BCS. The tournament money stays in the AD, the AD budget is less than 4% of UMCP's budget-which is seperate by the way. The AD balances a roughly $50m budget, the UMCP buget is roughly $1.3b.

Tournament money stays within the department is all audited by the university and the state. Without football and mens basketball revenue the AD could not balance their budget, not even close.

[inmn]

Precisely. What does it matter that Juan Dixon didn't get his degree in Family Education (or maybe it was Crim) now that he's in the NBA. The majority of the players in question went to the NBA. And all but one or maybe two are playing pro ball somewhere right now.

The University doesn't allow athletes (or anyone) to finish up degree work online like many other institutions do - UNC for one. If that changes, we'd see the grad rate rise. But to expect that guys working out to become NBA players are going to stay in school until the end of May and/or come back to College Park in the offseason is ridiculous. It's not going to happen.

Another thing to remember is that the players can come back after their eligibility expires and finish the requisite course work. Booth didn't have his degree, but he went back and got it so he could do going into coaching. The academics will always be there. Players have a limited window to maximize their earning potential in pro ball and to expect them to do otherwise is a disservice.

For those who think this is a big deal what specifically should the University and the Athletic Dept./Coaching staff do differently in order to facilitate higher graduation rates?

Here we go again:

Other schools on this list face the same issues what makes Md any different?

Grad rates for men's basketball

Teams from the final 2006-07 men's basketball USA TODAY Top 25 Coaches' Poll ranked by graduation success rate for classes entering 1997-2000.

Team (Poll) Grad rate

1. Florida (1) 100

2. Butler (13) 92

3. North Carolina (tie-5) 86

4. Vanderbilt (19) 83

5. Georgetown (4) 82

6. Virginia (24) 80

7. Southern Illinois (tie-11) 79

8. Winthrop (22) 77

9. Wisconsin (tie-11) 67

9. Virginia Tech (25) 67

National average 61

11. Oregon (8) 59

12. Pittsburgh (10) 56

13. Louisville (20) 50

14. Kansas (tie-5) 45

15. Ohio State (2) 40

15. UCLA (3) 40

15. Memphis (7) 40

15. Texas A&M (9) 40

19. Washington State (17) 35

19. Nevada (21) 35

21. Texas (16) 33

21. Tennessee (18) 33

23. Southern California (15) 29

24. UNLV (14) 15

25. Maryland (23) 0

[Eight]

Here we go again:

Other schools on this list face the same issues what makes Md any different?

Grad rates for men's basketball

Teams from the final 2006-07 men's basketball USA TODAY Top 25 Coaches' Poll ranked by graduation success rate for classes entering 1997-2000.

Team (Poll) Grad rate

1. Florida (1) 100

2. Butler (13) 92

3. North Carolina (tie-5) 86

4. Vanderbilt (19) 83

5. Georgetown (4) 82

6. Virginia (24) 80

7. Southern Illinois (tie-11) 79

8. Winthrop (22) 77

9. Wisconsin (tie-11) 67

9. Virginia Tech (25) 67

National average 61

11. Oregon (8) 59

12. Pittsburgh (10) 56

13. Louisville (20) 50

14. Kansas (tie-5) 45

15. Ohio State (2) 40

15. UCLA (3) 40

15. Memphis (7) 40

15. Texas A&M (9) 40

19. Washington State (17) 35

19. Nevada (21) 35

21. Texas (16) 33

21. Tennessee (18) 33

23. Southern California (15) 29

24. UNLV (14) 15

25. Maryland (23) 0

What on earth are you talking about? I already addressed what makes Maryland different. The University of Maryland requires all students to complete their final credits on campus in College Park. Other schools have programs that allow students to finish the requisite course work online. This would be an example of certain other schools not facing the same issues. To continue to claim that all schools do face the same issues is simply patently untrue. Do you not see how this makes it much more difficult for a basketball player who goes to the NBA or plays overseas to earn his degree?

[inmn]

What on earth are you talking about? I already addressed what makes Maryland different. The University of Maryland requires all students to complete their final credits on campus in College Park. Other schools have programs that allow students to finish the requisite course work online. This would be an example of certain other schools not facing the same issues. To continue to claim that all schools do face the same issues is simply patently untrue. Do you not see how this makes it much more difficult for a basketball player who goes to the NBA or plays overseas to earn his degree?

That is simply not true, UMCP recognizes and accepts credits from other accredited universities-students can and do graduate based upon transfered credits. Other schools, many on that list do not accept online classes for good reason-they are BS. The point is Md can and should do better-is the time period an annomaly-sure but if you want to try and defend the indefensible (last among D1 schools) when all top 25 teams last year were much higher it is obvoius you are just busting my balls to bust my balls. This should be a forum to exchange ideas and information not to constantly attack people.

My point is Md is no different than almost all of those schools and even has less stringent requirements than many. Please re-read my post I wrote "other schools" not "all schools" as you asserted again taking my post completely out of context!!

[Eight]

That is simply not true, UMCP recognizes and accepts credits from other accredited universities-students can and do graduate based upon transfered credits.

This is simply not true. The University requires that students take a certain number of their final credits "in residence" at the University. The University accepts transfer credits but not in the final credits taken to complete degree work. I read in one of the articles about this grad rates that it is the final 12 credits that must be taken on campus.

Other schools, many on that list do not accept online classes for good reason-they are BS. The point is Md can and should do better-is the time period an annomaly-sure but if you want to try and defend the indefensible (last among D1 schools) when all top 25 teams last year were much higher it is obvoius you are just busting my balls to bust my balls. This should be a forum to exchange ideas and information not to constantly attack people.

I posted on this thread just to "bust your balls" despite the fact that I had several posts here discussing the issue before you showed up? Do you even realize that you responded to me? Where have I attacked you? If you have that much of an issue with my posts, just don't respond.

Whether or not Maryland should accept online credits to fulfill degree requirements is irrelevant to the fact that other schools (North Carolina for one) DO allow their athletes to fulfill degree requirements without taking classes on campus. To ignore that this gives other schools a MAJOR benefit in graduation rate numbers is simply silly.

I have no idea whether all, some or few major DI colleges have more lax standards with regard to this than the University of Maryland, and I suspect you don't either. The point being that other schools - including more prestigious ones like UNC - DO have more lax standards in relation to athletes graduating. Context is important in this issue but is being largely ignored.

Either way, players are graduating NOW, so it's all a moot point.

[inmn]

8,

Md faces the same issues and challenges as others on that list which I think you will agree is Md's peer group. You cite one unsupported issue regarding one school (UNC), and ask "what on earth are you talking (writing) about?-regarding the whole list. That's pretty unfair.....

BTW:

Undergraduate Degree Requirements

1. Residency Requirement-Final Thirty Hour Rule

a. All candidates for undergraduate degrees from UMCP

must take their final thirty credits at UMCP.

Included in these thirty semester hours will be a

minimum of fifteen semester hours in courses

numbered 300 or above, including at least twelve

semester hours in the major field.

b. A student who at the time of graduation will have

completed thirty hours in residence at UMCP may,

under unusual circumstances, be permitted to take

a maximum of six of the final thirty credits of

record at another institution. In such cases,

written permission must be obtained in advance

from the dean of the academic unit from which the

student expects to receive the degree. Exceptions

beyond six credits will be made only under highly

unusual circumstances, and such requests must be

made through the Dean's Office to the Office of

the Vice President for Academic Affairs.

[sangell2007]

I was hoping we could go a full page with posts that started with "That is simply not true," but oh well. Eight is definitely right on this one, though. Maryland's policy in this issue is ridiculous. Allowing for six of the last 30 credits to be from another institution simply isn't good enough. There should be no "on-campus requirement" for the final credits, and students should be able to complete courses online, not at some other school. I know of no other place that has a policy quite like this one.

[Eight]

8,

Md faces the same issues and challenges as others on that list which I think you will agree is Md's peer group. You cite one unsupported issue regarding one school (UNC), and ask "what on earth are you talking (writing) about?-regarding the whole list. That's pretty unfair.....

BTW:

Undergraduate Degree Requirements

1. Residency Requirement-Final Thirty Hour Rule

a. All candidates for undergraduate degrees from UMCP

must take their final thirty credits at UMCP.

Included in these thirty semester hours will be a

minimum of fifteen semester hours in courses

numbered 300 or above, including at least twelve

semester hours in the major field.

b. A student who at the time of graduation will have

completed thirty hours in residence at UMCP may,

under unusual circumstances, be permitted to take

a maximum of six of the final thirty credits of

record at another institution. In such cases,

written permission must be obtained in advance

from the dean of the academic unit from which the

student expects to receive the degree. Exceptions

beyond six credits will be made only under highly

unusual circumstances, and such requests must be

made through the Dean's Office to the Office of

the Vice President for Academic Affairs.

http://www.diamondbackonline.com/home/index.cfm?event=displayArticle&ustory_id=a4961869-2bc8-49a3-b72e-af8db0e00d3c

The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, which had a GSR score of 86 percent in the report, offers players the opportunity to take online correspondence courses in order to complete their degree.

Again, I don't know how many schools offer similar programs or that they all face the same challenges. I'm sure some do. I feel confident in saying others don't. If you disagree, that's fine, I will just respectfully disagree. Because in either case these players have been out of the program for years and the players here now are graduating at a much higher rate.

[RayFink1e]

And they all sucked in the NBA.

[square634]

And they all sucked in the NBA.

I don't think Dixon, Blake, and Wilcox have been terrible in the NBA. Blake specifically has exceeded expectations, Dixon was about at expectations (the Wizards really reached for him because he was a local hero I think), and Wilcox and Baxter were disappointing.