Unbelievable... 0% Graduation rate '97-'00

[AgentOrange]

What do you guys care about...That Dixon and Blake won a NC and went to another final 4 or that they didn't graduate?

In other words, who cares....You can't make these kids make the right decisions.

Well for me, it is a biased opinion because I know Juan. I know he has plans to graduate, he is only a semester away I believe.

He also gives a ton of Money to the school and to Calvert Hall. I don't mind the fact that he didn't graduate because I know it is in his plans. He set up a scholarship fund in his brothers name and I believe it is for people who are in the law enforcement type majors at MD since his bro is a city cop I believe.

It is disappointing that they didn't receive the diploma, but they are not far away to be sure.

If anything, Juan is a great ambassador for MD and for Calvert Hall, so I don't really mind the fact he didn't graduate right now.

[Sports Guy]

Two things. Why can't you root for success on the court and in the classroom? Why is it an either/or? And I'd dare say that, for instance, Blake and Dixon made the right decisions. Those guys have insane money now and are set for life. In this case, they've taken care of their families and allowed themselves to live a comfortable, stable life. That's the American dream, right? Besides being flawed, this graduation rate would be a lot more worrisome if you were talking about a MEAC or Sunbelt or Trans-Atlantic Conference or whatever type of school, where so few players make it to the pro level.

Its not either/or John but at the end of the day, these guys graduating or not doesn't impact you.

Whether these guys go out and end up in the NBA or working at T Rowe Price, it has no impact for you.

Now, when they play for MD, their impact is felt by you because you are a fan of the team, go to the game and invest time into watching them.

I guess at the end of the day, in a roundabout way i am trying to defend Gary Williams here.

People are going to point the finger at him....I don't think that is fair.

[geschinger]

Its not either/or John but at the end of the day, these guys graduating or not doesn't impact you.

Whether these guys go out and end up in the NBA or working at T Rowe Price, it has no impact for you.

Now, when they play for MD, their impact is felt by you because you are a fan of the team, go to the game and invest time into watching them.

I guess at the end of the day, in a roundabout way i am trying to defend Gary Williams here.

People are going to point the finger at him....I don't think that is fair.

Unless Gary Williams has a different job description than other college coaches his job is to graduate players and win. The coach isn't soley responsible but he is a huge factor and when it comes to the program the buck stops there. That said, they seem to have improved a lot recently so in the grand scheme of things what happened in the past is not a huge deal.

[Mackus]

Its not either/or John but at the end of the day, these guys graduating or not doesn't impact you.

Whether these guys go out and end up in the NBA or working at T Rowe Price, it has no impact for you.

Now, when they play for MD, their impact is felt by you because you are a fan of the team, go to the game and invest time into watching them.

I guess at the end of the day, in a roundabout way i am trying to defend Gary Williams here.

People are going to point the finger at him....I don't think that is fair.

I agree that preparing for a career is the true goal of college. Some people need a degree to do that, some people don't. Most basketball players don't. If anyone on this list has a job in basketball, then I wouldn't be too concerned with them not graduating.

To address your other point, I definitely do care what happens to these guys after they are gone. These are guys I grew up rooting for and idolizing (some of them). It breaks my heart when Lonny Baxter gets multiple gun violations and ends up in a DC prison after being my favorite player for 4 years and seeming like an all-around teddy bear of a guy. I loved seeing Sarunas come to the NBA after dominating the Europe leagues. I think its cool as hell seeing Matt Hahn coaching. I don't think its only because I want guys from my school to do well, but its because I liked these guys when they were here, and just want to see them do well in general.

Its like seeing a former Oriole or Raven I liked do well with their new team. I'll root against them when they're playing against the team I cheer for, but other than that, I'd like to see them succeed.

[Sports Guy]

Unless Gary Williams has a different job description than other college coaches his job is to graduate players and win. The coach isn't soley responsible but he is a huge factor and when it comes to the program the buck stops there. That said, they seem to have improved a lot recently so in the grand scheme of things what happened in the past is not a huge deal.

Come on....This is like saying student athletes go to school for a degree and the sport second...It just isn't reality.

If Gary graduated 100% of his kids but won 12 games every year, how long do you think he would have his job?

[geschinger]

Come on....This is like saying student athletes go to school for a degree and the sport second...It just isn't reality.

How about having student athletes go the school for the sport first and a degree second instead of going to the school for the sport and not for a degree?

If Gary graduated 100% of his kids but won 12 games every year, how long do you think he would have his job?

You do know that it is possible to win *and* graduate players, don't you?

Like I said, things seem to have gotten better so it's not a huge deal that they had a breakdown several years ago. But if Gary had continued to graduate 0% of his players that too would have eventually ended up costing him his job.

[Sports Guy]

How about having student athletes go the school for the sport first and a degree second instead of going to the school for the sport and not for a degree?

I agree this is the way it should be but the reality is that is not the way it is in a lot of places.

You do know that it is possible to win *and* graduate players, don't you?

Sure...Ask Bobby Knight this. But i also know that these guys get their heads filled with misinformation and only want to hear the good stuff.

Like I said, things seem to have gotten better so it's not a huge deal that they had a breakdown several years ago. But if Gary had continued to graduate 0% of his players that too would have eventually ended up costing him his job.

Well, MD has had bad graduation rates since Gary got there(at least according to the recent studies) and he is still there...Put it this way, losing a bunch of games will cost him his job much quicker than bad graduation rates.

He is at that school to win games first and foremost.

[Dr. FLK]

Its not either/or John but at the end of the day, these guys graduating or not doesn't impact you.

Whether these guys go out and end up in the NBA or working at T Rowe Price, it has no impact for you.

Now, when they play for MD, their impact is felt by you because you are a fan of the team, go to the game and invest time into watching them.

I guess at the end of the day, in a roundabout way i am trying to defend Gary Williams here.

People are going to point the finger at him....I don't think that is fair.

It doesn't impact me one bit. BUT, it impacts him. He's a college coach, not a pro coach. He is responsible for coaching a basketball team and representing the university. And, there is an implied responsibility for academics in NCAA athletic programs. And, right now, his looks like a joke. How is the fact that it "doesn't impact me" defending him at all? Those kids aren't my responsibility...

[geschinger]

I agree this is the way it should be but the reality is that is not the way it is in a lot of places.

In those places where it is not that way attempts should be made to change things rather than just writing it off as no big deal.

Sure...Ask Bobby Knight this. But i also know that these guys get their heads filled with misinformation and only want to hear the good stuff.

Well, MD has had bad graduation rates since Gary got there(at least according to the recent studies) and he is still there...Put it this way, losing a bunch of games will cost him his job much quicker than bad graduation rates.

He is at that school to win games first and foremost.

Absolutely, winning is a requirement and the most important thing for job security. While he may have a bad overall graduation rate - even if it's in the 30% range he'll be fine as long as he wins. If they hadn't improved and the next study was going to have them at 0% my guess is that he'd have some problems even if they continued to win.

[Sports Guy]

It doesn't impact me one bit. BUT, it impacts him. He's a college coach, not a pro coach. He is responsible for coaching a basketball team and representing the university. And, there is an implied responsibility for academics in NCAA athletic programs. And, right now, his looks like a joke. How is the fact that it "doesn't impact me" defending him at all? Those kids aren't my responsibility...

My point with that is why do you care at all about this?

Someone like Mackus or John, i can understand because it makes THEIR school look bad.

As Beaner said, if you went there, i get that.

I know as a Duke fan, i could care less if they graduate or not. I want them to go to Duke, play well, win games and hopefully win titles.

Once they leave Duke, unless they go into the NBA, i don't follow them. I don't pay attention to their portfolios or if they are digging ditches....I mean sure, i would like to see them do well in life but i would wish that on most human beings.

[square634]

How about having student athletes go the school for the sport first and a degree second instead of going to the school for the sport and not for a degree?

You do know that it is possible to win *and* graduate players, don't you?

Like I said, things seem to have gotten better so it's not a huge deal that they had a breakdown several years ago. But if Gary had continued to graduate 0% of his players that too would have eventually ended up costing him his job.

But what value are the athletes actually getting by graduating? If they graduate through grade inflation, BS majors, and/or "advisors" doing homework for them, does that really make them more qualified? It's nice to say they are student/athletes, but for the most part that just isn't the case. They need to have something like an 820 on their SATs combined for the reading and math section. Considering the minimum score is 400, that is just abominably low, and some of these guys struggle to get that and have to take it 10 times, even with private tutoring. And they are going to institutions such as Duke where people get rejected even with 1500+ SATs. The same thing happens at Ivy League schools; everyone knows that if you take classes with lots of athletes, there is a massive curve. For the most part, these kids just aren't on the same level academically, just like the general student population is not on their level athletically.

[BaltimoreTerp]

It doesn't impact me one bit. BUT, it impacts him. He's a college coach, not a pro coach. He is responsible for coaching a basketball team and representing the university. And, there is an implied responsibility for academics in NCAA athletic programs. And, right now, his looks like a joke. How is the fact that it "doesn't impact me" defending him at all? Those kids aren't my responsibility...

The problem is the use of flawed statistics over the wrong period of time. Kind of like measuring Miguel Tejada's overall defensive abilities based on fielding percentage in August 2007.

Apparently some of the players actually did graduate, and most of the players involved are playing pro ball somewhere. Judging Williams based on those guys is like judging Harvard a failure because Bill Gates dropped out of school.

[Sports Guy]

Correct BTerp...It is flawed and that is the other problem with it.

[Dr. FLK]

The problem is the use of flawed statistics over the wrong period of time. Kind of like measuring Miguel Tejada's overall defensive abilities based on fielding percentage in August 2007.

Apparently some of the players actually did graduate, and most of the players involved are playing pro ball somewhere. Judging Williams based on those guys is like judging Harvard a failure because Bill Gates dropped out of school.

Sure it's flawed. But, 0% is still bad. Miguel's fielding percentage in August wasn't 0.000. No other teams had 0%, did they? And, I'd be willing to wager that there are quite a few other schools with more players in the NBA and overseas.

[Dr. FLK]

My point with that is why do you care at all about this?

Someone like Mackus or John, i can understand because it makes THEIR school look bad.

As Beaner said, if you went there, i get that.

I know as a Duke fan, i could care less if they graduate or not. I want them to go to Duke, play well, win games and hopefully win titles.

Once they leave Duke, unless they go into the NBA, i don't follow them. I don't pay attention to their portfolios or if they are digging ditches....I mean sure, i would like to see them do well in life but i would wish that on most human beings.

I went there as well.