Zaaaaaaaach !!!

[Say O!]

From yesterday's fangraphs chat with new columnist Frankie Piliere

12:36

[Comment From AllanAllan: ]

Ok, Cameron did it yesterday with major leaguers... now do it with the minors! Build the perfect pitcher with tools (pitches) from throughout the minors

Thursday March 17, 2011 12:36 Allan

12:39

Frankie Piliere:

Interesting. Let's see. Let's take Betances' frame, Zach Britton's fastball movement, Jameson Taillon's arm, Hellickson's command, Teheran's breaking ball. I probably short changed someone but that's a pretty darn good pitcher.

Pretty effusive praise here for Britton...

[OFFNY]

From yesterday's fangraphs chat with new columnist Frankie Piliere

Pretty effusive praise here for Britton ...

I had to look that one up.

.

[JTrea81]

In the spring of 2008, the Rays were coming off a 96-loss season. Despite their history of 91 losses or more in every one of their first ten seasons and despite the tough prospect of competing in the AL East, they knew they had a pretty good team. Despite evidence that the team was pretty good, most predicted an improved but losing season while recognizing the possibility that they could break .500 if a lot went well. They managed to change the losing culture in 2008 with a World Series appearance.

In the spring of 2011, the O's are coming off a 96-loss season. The history of losing and the tough prospect of competing in the AL East make it difficult to believe the O's will be in contention. Most 'experts' are predicting an improved but losing season with the possibility that they could break .500 if a lot goes well. Maybe we should take a note from the Rays, right?

The Rays kept Evan Longoria in the minors for the first two weeks of the 2008 season so that he would be under control for the extra year.

Thirteen days in 2008 < six months in 2014.

A week later, they signed him to a very creative potentially very long-term deal.

This team has more revenue than the Rays and Longoria is a hitter not a pitcher. He had a better chance of still playing at a high level or even at all in 5 years than a pitcher like Britton would.

However if it's only two starts, it's not that huge. I'll be majorly ticked if they try to keep him down until June.

The bottom line is if keeping a pitcher down will cost you several wins just for a year of control that you may not want anyway, it's a terrible idea. Pitchers should never be kept down for only service time issues. Never.

[waroriole]

This team has more revenue than the Rays and Longoria is a hitter not a pitcher. He had a better chance of still playing at a high level or even at all in 5 years than a pitcher like Britton would.

However if it's only two starts, it's not that huge. I'll be majorly ticked if they try to keep him down until June.

The bottom line is if keeping a pitcher down will cost you several wins just for a year of control that you may not want anyway, it's a terrible idea. Pitchers should never be kept down for only service time issues. Never.[/u]

That's a silly statement. If Britton doesn't come up until June, is that AM's decision, or Buck's? What about if he is on the OD roster, or up in April?

[AgentOrange]

Do you think the grounds crew will grow the grass a little longer on days he starts? Just an idea.

[JTrea81]

That's a silly statement. If Britton doesn't come up until June, is that AM's decision, or Buck's? What about if he is on the OD roster, or up in April?

All roster decisions are MacPhail's with input from Showalter.

But I guarantee you if you asked Buck if he'd want Britton in the rotation on Opening Day if MacPhail didn't care about service time issues, he'd say "yes."

Tillman hasn't outpitched Britton, so he doesn't deserve his spot.

By sending Britton down even though he was the 2nd best starter in camp if not the best starter and keeping him there until June, it would send a poor message IMO.

[JTrea81]

Do you think the grounds crew will grow the grass a little longer on days he starts? Just an idea.

The grounds crew has always kept the IF grass fairly long IIRC.

Erickson was helped out quite a bit by it.

[waroriole]

All roster decisions are MacPhail's with input from Showalter.

But I guarantee you if you asked Buck if he'd want Britton in the rotation on Opening Day if MacPhail didn't care about service time issues, he'd say "yes."

Tillman hasn't outpitched Britton, so he doesn't deserve his spot.

By sending Britton down even though he was the 2nd best starter in camp if not the best starter and keeping him there until June, it would send a poor message IMO.

So, you would only decide who is the 5th starter based on results of meaningless spring games?

I agree with you about keeping him down to avoid Super 2, especially since it will likely be eliminated by the next CBA.

[JTrea81]

So, you would only decide who is the 5th starter based on results of meaningless spring games?

I agree with you about keeping him down to avoid Super 2, especially since it will likely be eliminated by the next CBA.

If ST was supposed to be a competition for the 5th starter spot, whoever pitched the best should win.

That's what a competition is.

If the roster spot goes to Tillman based on the results up to today, the competition would look like a farce.

It's just like the "competition" for the LF job in 2009. It was supposed to be a competition between Pie, Reimold and Montanez and the latter two completely outplayed Pie and yet he was awarded the spot because he was MacPhail's pet player and out of options.

If you are truly going to have a competition, then you've got to let the results dictate the roster spot. Otherwise, you are just lying to the players.

[Stotle]

If ST was supposed to be a competition for the 5th starter spot, whoever pitched the best should win.

That's what a competition is.

If the roster spot goes to Tillman based on the results up to today, the competition would look like a farce.

It's just like the "competition" for the LF job in 2009. It was supposed to be a competition between Pie, Reimold and Montanez and the latter two completely outplayed Pie and yet he was awarded the spot because he was MacPhail's pet player and out of options.

If you are truly going to have a competition, then you've got to let the results dictate the roster spot. Otherwise, you are just lying to the players.

Maybe the issue is that you are viewing a competition as measured by stat line/production, instead of whatever criteria the evaluators/decision makers decide are important. Just a thought...

[waroriole]

If ST was supposed to be a competition for the 5th starter spot, whoever pitched the best should win.

That's what a competition is.

You're being very obtuse here. There is more to ST than the results of the games. The managers need to determine who is throwing better, and is more likely to keep it up. You can only do that by watching these guys every day and knowing alot about pitching. Neither one of us are in a position to make that determination, so I'll trust Buck and AM to make the right decision.

[scOtt]

It should be said (again) Tillman hasn't pitched badly at all. The walks are still a little concern but he's also had a bunch of 4 and 5 out innings.

[weams]

It should be said (again) Tillman hasn't pitched badly at all. The walks are still a little concern but he's also had a bunch of 4 and 5 out innings.

He looked great the times I saw him. As did Britton. Arrieta and Matusz were both good. And Tillman was definitely not nibbling when I saw him. But you are right. The B- defense did him no favors.

[Can_of_corn]

All roster decisions are MacPhail's with input from Showalter.

But I guarantee you if you asked Buck if he'd want Britton in the rotation on Opening Day if MacPhail didn't care about service time issues, he'd say "yes."

Tillman hasn't outpitched Britton, so he doesn't deserve his spot.

By sending Britton down even though he was the 2nd best starter in camp if not the best starter and keeping him there until June, it would send a poor message IMO.

BB hasn't outpitched Tillman does he deserve his spot?

My five right now would be Guthrie, Matusz, Arrieta, Britton, Tillman.

[scOtt]

BB hasn't outpitched Tillman does he deserve his spot?

My five right now would be Guthrie, Matusz, Arrieta, Britton, Tillman.

I'm willing to stick with Bergy. He stinks right now, but when he gets it together he'll string 10, 12, 15 good starts in a row.