Signing Vlad was big mistake

[NattieO'sHon]

You're right. We should also sign Hank Aaron and Stan Musial. Maybe even Bob Gibson to lead the rotation.

Why don't we trade him right now for Fielder?

[Sports Guy]

Why don't we trade him right now for Fielder?

So we can watch him leave via FA after this season?

[flashjordnk]

I'm not sure I understand this line of thinking. He absolutely roped 3 balls last night and is 4 for his last 8. He has already proven he still has some power left in his bat with 3 home runs this year.

Also Vlad had 35 walks last year and 19 the year before that. If you only walk 19 times in an entire season, it's not out of the realm that he could go a 21 game stretch without a walk.

Yes and as my friend just informed he, he's leading the team in hits and batting average. Vlad for President. You can have his 287 OBP and his 3 singles from last night. And by the way...go look at the full numbers for the year he walked 19 times. Is it a coincidence that Vlad slash lines two years ago were 295/334/460 for a 794 OPS. Or the fact the year before he walked 19 times he walked 51 and OPSed 90 points higher? He CAN walk 19 times a year. But he's most likely to have a sub 800 OPS given his two years older and in a more difficult division now.

I get it. Vlad's unconventional. He's here to save the world. Apparently his butt looks bad.

The home/road splits. His aging knees. His inflexibility in terms of roster space. His incredibly slow speed. The fact that he's seeing a league low 3.02 pitches per plate appearance. Swinging more, with reduced contact rates.

These are my concerns and three singles against a guy who's struggled this year and seemed to have two guys on in every single inning last night, isn't going to change that just yet. If he can dial it up against Beckett/Lester too maybe I'll be apt to agree with you. But one game isn't going to do the trick.

[Nigel Tufnel]

Also Vlad had 35 walks last year and 19 the year before that. If you only walk 19 times in an entire season, it's not out of the realm that he could go a 21 game stretch without a walk.

I just posted something similar in another thread, but if you look at just his unintentional walks, then it's 30 and 16 instead of 35 and 19. So it's even more likely that he could go 21 games without walking.

EDIT: He had a 19 game stretch last year, if I'm counting correctly. Plus a 29 game stretch with 1 unintentional walk.

[NattieO'sHon]

So we can watch him leave via FA after this season?

It was a joke. I was responding to his response.

[Bradysburns]

Ha! Finally, someone just came out and said it. Vlad leads Nick Markakis, Adam Jones, the holy Derrick Lee and everyone else in hits. He leads the team in average. He's second in total bases. He's tied for second in home runs. He leads the team in at-bats (in other words, his arm doesn't fall off when the wind blows). And that is with about ZERO protection around him in the lineup.

I am glad you are not the GM. That's for sure. For someone to survey the landscape here and decide that the ONE thing that's holding back this team is its current hits leader... that's some very interesting thinking. He's doing exactly what we hired him to do - play DH every single day and anchor this sorry lineup. Leave the guy alone.

[SerenityNow]

The fact that he's seeing a league low 3.02 pitches per plate appearance.

I didn't hear the rangers complaining last year when he was worst in the league with a 3.13, but I guess we will leave that out of the equation since it's inconvenient for your argument.

His OPS was .841 and he hit 29 HR's, but it seems he's lost it all since he's gone from a 3.13 to a 3.02 P/PA in the last 6 months.

[waroriole]

Ha! Finally, someone just came out and said it. Vlad leads Nick Markakis, Adam Jones, the holy Derrick Lee and everyone else in hits. He leads the team in average. He's second in total bases. He's tied for second in home runs. He leads the team in at-bats (in other words, his arm doesn't fall off when the wind blows). And that is with about ZERO protection around him in the lineup.

I am glad you are not the GM. That's for sure. For someone to survey the landscape here and decide that the ONE thing that's holding back this team is its current hits leader... that's some very interesting thinking. He's doing exactly what we hired him to do - play DH every single day and anchor this sorry lineup. Leave the guy alone.

Wow, you really are ignoring a lot of things here. He leads the team in AB? Really, he leads the team in AB b/c he has ZERO walks.

I guess some people just like to be contrarians

[flashjordnk]

I didn't hear the rangers complaining last year when he was worst in the league with a 3.13, but I guess we will leave that out of the equation since it's inconvenient for your argument.

His OPS was .841 and he hit 29 HR's, but it seems he's lost it all since he's gone from a 3.13 to a 3.02 P/PA in the last 6 months.

Look it's not just any one of these things. It's all of them. If you want to pick and choose and nitpick over each thing I say that's fine.

For example, who cares if Vlad is slower, he really hustles. Ok that's fine, I can take that if that's his only problem we're good. But it's not. His P/PA is league worst, but in combination of that his contact rates are declining. And he can't ever play in the field! It's just that I'm OK with a guy that brings more than one skill to the table, but Vlad literally brings one skill to the table, and that's mashing in the middle of this lineup.

At what point do the sum of all these flaws, not add up to him not being worth his contract and the future and current value to this team that we might have. Whoop dee doo, he leads this team in hits. In the words of MrOrange82:

The point is that Vlad, as a one-year stopgap who doesn't fit into the team's plans long-term, serves very little purpose if he's not going to play like the true, MOO bat he's been over the course of his career. All he's doing is blocking other players, players who might factor into the team's long-term plans, from getting ML AB's.

At least for the first half of last year he did some damage. But there is a reason the Rangers didn't want him back. And I'm guessing it has something to do with the Vlad that we've seen for the 330+ PA's of last year. The post season of last year. And this year.

From July 1, 2010 through Oct 3 2010 Vlad Slugged 419. He OPSed 730. And had a BABIP of 266 over 332 PA's.

In 16 PA's in the post season he had 1 hit, no extra base hits and struck out 5 times and walked once.

[SerenityNow]

In 16 PA's in the post season he had 1 hit, no extra base hits and struck out 5 times and walked once.

It's kind of difficult to have a discussion with someone who just makes it up as they go along.

Really??? Vlad had 16 PA the entire Rangers playoff run. That's nice to know.

[waroriole]

It's kind of difficult to have a discussion with someone who just makes it up as they go along.

Really??? Vlad had 16 PA the entire Rangers playoff run. That's nice to know.

I think he must have meant in the WS. Vlad was 13 for 59 in the playoffs last year, with an OPS under .600.

[Tony-OH]

My biggest complaint which you ignore is that all the little things are adding up on this guy. The home/road splits. His aging knees. His inflexibility in terms of roster space. His incredibly slow speed. The fact that he's seeing a league low 3.02 pitches per plate appearance. Swinging more, with reduced contact rates. I can take all that with a 900+ OPS.

Would I like to see Pie/Reimold/Fox/whomever get some of those at bats. Sure why not? Scott could play there and we could have someone else in left. This biggest hurdle I have in what I don't like about Vlad is that all of those things are not numbers base. They are all the things I list above.

Frankly I could care less that he as a HOFer. The guy is 36. How many quality 36 year olds play above average baseball? If the question is, would I rather give the at bats to Pie, play him in LF take the couple runs he prevents out there and move Scott to DH. The answer is yes. I want to know what we have in Pie. If that means a few games this year, then so be it. Vlad of 2+ years ago was a guy who could carry a team. He's no longer that guy. He's probably a slightly above average guy, who will use his hot streaks to keep his numbers up. But will give you at least two months during the season where his OPS is below 750. BTW...I'll take your bet that Vlad's OPS by the end of May is 820. Unless he starts to walk, and last night's 8 pitch 4 at bat attempt is no indication he plans on trying, he'll won't be able to pull it off. If he does start to walk, I'll get off his bat. It means he's adjusting, realizing he can't hit everything under the sun and he'll help the team by getting into opposing teams bullpens earlier in games. If he starts to slug I'll be happy, but I see very few indicators that he's going to do that.

And to be 100% clear, zero of my objections to Vlad are based in effort. You answered my comment about how Vlad running looks painful with hustle. I didn't say he didn't. But it was neither quick and it was not pretty. And if a good throw came in, since he sort of almost altogether missed the bag sliding, he would have been out. Hustle or not.

You may be the last guy in the world who is still wondering what we have in Pie. We have a fourth outfielder, no more, no less. Vlad is yet to really get into a hot streak and it's too early to say he's finished in my opinion. His swing rate is pretty atrocious, but it's never been good and I think it will even itself out a bit as the season wears on. Vlad has yet to really hit a hot spell yet and when that humid air arrives, I'm going to bet the homers will start to show up (along with Reynolds). He's not the guy he used to be, no doubt, but I think it's too early to say he's a bust. I've seen him turn on some good fastballs so the bat speed issue that some have brought up really doesn't hold a ton of weight for me.

As for his base running, Vlad is not fast, but he's not the slowest guy on the team either. He's a pretty heads up runner on top of it all and I've yet to see him do something on the base paths that have cost the O's.

[El Gordo]

Wow, you really are ignoring a lot of things here. He leads the team in AB? Really, he leads the team in AB b/c he has ZERO walks.

I guess some people just like to be contrarians

Did we sign Vlad for his walks? He has never been a patient hitter and the fact that he isn't taking any walks is irrelevant. If you are going to replace a player with his track record, with a AAA player who isn't hitting any better, after 87 PA, then you need to worry about every other player on the team not named Wieters or Roberts.

[flashjordnk]

I think he must have meant in the WS. Vlad was 13 for 59 in the playoffs last year, with an OPS under .600.

Yup what he said...misread the line in baseball reference to just the world series. Sorry about the misinformation in the stat.

The outlook doesn't get much better for you here though.

[SerenityNow]

I think he must have meant in the WS. Vlad was 13 for 59 in the playoffs last year, with an OPS under .600.

He was also 7/38 in the 2005 postseason with an OPS of .428, I have no idea how he kept his job for next year...

And if he meant World Series he should have said World Series. Either way have some people really come to a point where we are going to slam a guy for 16 AB's? Good grief.