It's time for Andy to get "MacPhailed"

[LookinUp]

I am sorry but its unneccassary whining to bring up our unbalanced schedule until this organization does what it takes to make the unbalanced schedule an actual issue. Right now, its a non issue because the Orioles can't beat Pittsburgh, much less the Yankees.

if you are going to run things poorly, your division is meaningless.

Once Baltimore shows they are a solid organization -- let's just set it at "2000-2009 Toronto" -- I'll start complaining about them not making the playoffs. Bottom line right now is that this team isn't making the playoffs in any division.

Here here.

The Yanks and Sox and MLB in general are an issue, but we're tripping over our own feet in this race.

[DrungoHazewood]

I also agree that we would not be making the playoffs in any Division, but I would argue that we would be a lot closer in the AL Central then we are in the AL East.

Wouldn't it be nice, just for once, to have a year like the Giants where you have some good pitchers and Aubrey Huff and Juan Uribe and $250M in deadweight contracts and win the World Series? I mean, not as nice as having a killer organization that does everything right, but still... Wouldn't it be nice to think that might be possible?

[Slappy]

Wins and losses are fact and can't be disputed. What many of us try and point out every time this thread is started -- which is about once a week -- is that you can't look exclusively at wins and losses. You have to look at talent acquired and developed.

Dayton Moore is in his 5th year as GM of the Royals. His teams don't win. His team isn't likely to win this year and it wouldn't be surprising if they ended up with a worse record than the Orioles. Should he be fired? Probably not because the talent in his system is unmatched.

AM hasn't put together a system anywhere near the quality of the Royals but it is much better than it has been. Is that good enough to overcome the w/l record to this point? Probably not but it needs to be recognized.

If such threads were more balanced, it probably wouldn't provoke the endless back and forth. Of course, this is a message board, so maybe some people enjoy it.

BA system rankings don't raise pennants. If you take a look, the minors right now are pretty bleak. And the young talent everyone crowed about a few years ago is in the majors. And we're still a losing team.

Where should I give credit to MacPhail? The job of a GM is to put quality players on the field. Is Wieters any better than Javy Lopez or Ramon Hernandez? Look at the numbers. Who put better shortstops on the field? First basemen? What 3B has MacPhail added to the roster that is anywhere near as good as Melvin Mora during Flanny's era? We're supposed to grow the arms, right? Well, is Arrieta is any better than Rodrigo Lopez? Is Britton or Matusz better than Bedard? The bullpens haven't changed much. Sure, MacPhail has given us Koji and JJ, but Flanny had BJ Ryan and Chris Ray.

Unproven prospects are given way too much value. Who cares? Give me wins. I could care less how we get there.

[JTrea81]

Unproven prospects are given way too much value. Who cares? Give me wins. I could care less how we get there.

This is the crux of the whole MacPhail era. We could only get there one way and that way was always pointing to another organization's method but never following how that organization did things. There was a plan to make it look like there was a plan but they had to keep costs low and fans' hopes high.

And he succeeded in that plan 100%. But just winning in general was never a priority.

This organization can compete in the AL East. They just choose not to because they aren't wiiling to do what it will take for any method.

They'd rather half-ass their way to contention and you can't do that. Whether it be blowing up the whole team and going with young talent, or going all in with established talent, you've got to pick one way or the other.

[Going Underground]

Here here.

The Yanks and Sox and MLB in general are an issue, but we're tripping over our own feet in this race.

The O's are 764-1016 over the last ten years. The O's are 112 games under during those years against the Yanks and Red Sox. The O's are 140 games under .500 against the rest of the majors. How many pennants over the last ten years would the O's have won even if they were in another division? You can't just say the Yanks and Red Sox are beating up on the O's. I would like to see a balanced schedule and see if the O's do any better.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/games/head2head.cgi?teams=BAL&from=2000&to=2010&submit=Submit

[JTrea81]

The O's are 764-1016 over the last ten years. The O's are 112 games under during those years against the Yanks and Red Sox. The O's are 140 games under .500 against the rest of the majors. How many pennants over the last ten years would the O's have won even if they were in another division? You can't just say the Yanks and Red Sox are beating up on the O's. I would like to see a balanced schedule and see if the O's do any better.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/ga...&submit=Submit

Oakland for instance owns the Orioles. The Orioles also lost 15 games to Tampa in 2009 and have had issues with the Jays as well. The division excuses due to the Yankees and Red Sox are pretty well null and void at this point.

They aren't just losing to the Yankees and Red Sox. Now those teams have put them in a tailspin at some points as they seem to react to horrible losses vs.them worse than others. So there is that aspect.

I still say a bench clearer is needed there...

[Roll Tide]

Oakland for instance owns the Orioles. The Orioles also lost 15 games to Tampa in 2009 and have had issues with the Jays as well. The division excuses due to the Yankees and Red Sox are pretty well null and void at this point.

They aren't just losing to the Yankees and Red Sox. Now those teams have put them in a tailspin at some points as they seem to react to horrible losses vs.them worse than others. So there is that aspect.

I still say a bench clearer is needed there...

Sorry Trea ...We need more star type talent....A brawl won't improve the play because we dont have the players.

[Stotle]

That's the current standard in the AL East. The Red Sox have been to the playoffs eight of ten years and the Yankees have been in 10 of 10. Reality sucks but it's the truth.

I agree with not being tolerant of the O's missteps. I'm not making excuses for them, but when people say that the MLB un-level playing field is not important I just want to make sure people understand it is important and always will be a concern for the Orioles as long as the current rules and regulations are kept.

I also agree that we would not be making the playoffs in any Division, but I would argue that we would be a lot closer in the AL Central then we are in the AL East.

We're on the same page then. Once the O's put together a team that might be in the playoffs but for the inequities of the AL East, I'll start complaining too.

[Stotle]

Wouldn't it be nice, just for once, to have a year like the Giants where you have some good pitchers and Aubrey Huff and Juan Uribe and $250M in deadweight contracts and win the World Series? I mean, not as nice as having a killer organization that does everything right, but still... Wouldn't it be nice to think that might be possible?

Sure. But that's not the standard I set for sports leagues -- the set-up needs to allow for the occasional heavily flawed team to catch lightening in a bottle.

I don't think the set-up is fair, but the set-up has yet to prevent the O's from making the playoffs, so far as I can tell.

[Tony-OH]

Sure. But that's not the standard I set for sports leagues -- the set-up needs to allow for the occasional heavily flawed team to catch lightening in a bottle.

I don't think the set-up is fair, but the set-up has yet to prevent the O's from making the playoffs, so far as I can tell.

Let me ask you this question then: Do you think the unfairness keeps players from signing with the Orioles or makes them have to overpay to get a quality player to come here? Other then the almighty dollar, what motivation does Fielder have to come to the Orioles knowing he has to play the Red Sox and Yankees 38 times a year and the fact they together they have only missed the playoffs two times in the last ten years?

[JTrea81]

Let me ask you this question then: Do you think the unfairness keeps players from signing with the Orioles or makes them have to overpay to get a quality player to come here? Other then the almighty dollar, what motivation does Fielder have to come to the Orioles knowing he has to play the Red Sox and Yankees 38 times a year and the fact they together they have only missed the playoffs two times in the last ten years?

The Orioles lack of trying to compete is what keeps FAs away. They have a reputation for not going far enough to land premium talent.

It isn't because of the division, it's their philosophy that keeps players away. Why waste time with an organization that you know isn't going to pay you what you want in the long run when others will?

Once the Orioles actually pursue successfully and land a premium free agent, the other players will take notice. It's a domino effect.

To do that though, they need to get a GM that doesn't have to wear Depends when contemplating signing a premium FA.

MacPhail simply isn't wired to do that and likely never will be.

[Stotle]

Let me ask you this question then: Do you think the unfairness keeps players from signing with the Orioles or makes them have to overpay to get a quality player to come here? Other then the almighty dollar, what motivation does Fielder have to come to the Orioles knowing he has to play the Red Sox and Yankees 38 times a year and the fact they together they have only missed the playoffs two times in the last ten years?

No. I don't think that financial capabilities of the Red Sox and Yankees make free agents turn away from Baltimore. I think Baltimore being a laughing stock of an organization for the better part of the last 13 years makes players not want to come to Baltimore. Had Baltimore floated between 78-85 wins over the past decade, I don't think they would have anywhere near the same trouble signing someone.

It would also be helpful if Baltimore were willing to pay what other teams are willing to pay. I say that while noting I do not feel they've missed out on anyone they needed to sign.

[eddie83]

The Orioles lack of trying to compete is what keeps FAs away. They have a reputation for not going far enough to land premium talent.

It isn't because of the division, it's their philosophy that keeps players away. Why waste time with an organization that you know isn't going to pay you what you want in the long run when others will?

Once the Orioles actually pursue successfully and land a premium free agent, the other players will take notice. It's a domino effect.

To do that though, they need to get a GM that doesn't have to wear Depends when contemplating signing a premium FA.

MacPhail simply isn't wired to do that and likely never will be.

This is ridiculous. You are asking a FA to sign in a division where the Sox and Yankees play and win over 90 games a year, to act like that doesn't impact how a player thinks is clueless.

[eddie83]

No. I don't think that financial capabilities of the Red Sox and Yankees make free agents turn away from Baltimore. I think Baltimore being a laughing stock of an organization for the better part of the last 13 years makes players not want to come to Baltimore. Had Baltimore floated between 78-85 wins over the past decade, I don't think they would have anywhere near the same trouble signing someone.

It would also be helpful if Baltimore were willing to pay what other teams are willing to pay. I say that while noting I do not feel they've missed out on anyone they needed to sign.

Would Victor Martinez have signed with Detroit if they are in the AL East and the Orioles are in the AL Central? Detroit isn't a playoff team in this division.

[MikeAD]

Would Victor Martinez have signed with Detroit if they are in the AL East and the Orioles are in the AL Central? Detroit isn't a playoff team in this division.

There was more too it than that. There are many Spanish speaking players and players from Central America/Latin America on the team. Didn't his agent talk about this when he signed?