How do you get better...

[Frobby]

By the way, part of the way you get better is by younger players gaining experience and improving. But a lot of our younger players who have been on the team since 2009 or before seem to be heading in the wrong direction.

[JTrea81]

If you extend Hardy why do you need Cozart. You can pick up a number of better than Andino 2B/SS insurance options in FA, and Guthrie alone would get you Alonso. SF won't trade either Wheeler or Belt for anyone, IMO, certainly not Jones.

Because Roberts and Hardy are both unknown quantities as far as injuries and Cozart is likely better than Andino for cheaper than you'd find on the FA market.

I suspect Cozart would get plenty of playing time in an Orioles uniform as neither Roberts or Hardy can stay on the field for a full season.

Just look at how many ABs have been given to Andino.

[Sports Guy]

By the way, part of the way you get better is by younger players gaining experience and improving. But a lot of our younger players who have been on the team since 2009 or before seem to be heading in the wrong direction.

Well sure but you can't continue to rely solely on that.

[Sports Guy]

Because Roberts and Hardy are both unknown quantities as far as injuries and Cozart is likely better than Andino for cheaper than you'd find on the FA market.

I suspect Cozart would get plenty of playing time in an Orioles uniform as neither Roberts or Hardy can stay on the field for a full season.

This is very true...but if you extend Hardy, you can not make Cozart the main piece in a Guthrie trade(you can't do that anyway but it makes even less sense if his job for the Orioles is UTI IFer).

[orioles119]

You get better by running a farm system that provides depth and replaces players with major league quality prospects.

Unfortunately, the Os have sucked at this for (probably) 2 decades.

Roberts, Wieters, Markakis, and Bedard (who netted the O's Adam Jones) says hello.

[Frobby]

By the way, part of the way you get better is by younger players gaining experience and improving. But a lot of our younger players who have been on the team since 2009 or before seem to be heading in the wrong direction.

Well sure but you can't continue to rely solely on that.

That's why I said "part of the way."

[Jagwar]

Roberts, Wieters, Markakis, and Bedard (who netted the O's Adam Jones) says hello.

Really? You're going to give me 4 guys over the last 20 years as proof that the O's don't suck at developing players?

Even if you throw in Mussina, the O's record of drafting and developing players to consistently feed the ML club is pathetic.

[wildcard]

Some time between now and next March:

1)Trade Guthrie, Koji and Pie

2) Look for two more trades like Hardy and Reynolds where the O's get under 30 year old but getting expensive quality players for minor leaguers. Salary relief for the other club.

3) Add selected FAs that do not require draft choices. Hopefully younger then Lee or Vlad.

Keep: RF Markakis, CF Jones, LF Reimold, LF/4th OF Angle, 2B Roberts, SS Hardy, DH Reynolds, 2B/UIF Andino, 2B Davis, 2B Adams, C Wieters, C Tatum, SP Matusz, SP Britton, SP Arrieta, SP Bergy, SP Tillman, RP Gregg, RP Johnson, RP Patton, RP McCurry, RP Berken. Total 60M

Let go: Vlad, Lee, Scott, Gonzo, Izturis, Duch, Accardo, Harris, Plus the Trade of Guthrie, Koji and Pie. Total 43M

O's will have about 25M to spend for a 85M payroll.

Goal: to add 3B, 1B and 3 SP. Starters to add depth which may push Bergy and Tillman to the pen. Not looking to add a TOR starter. Britton, Matusz and/or Arrieta are to develop into TORs.

[orioles119]

Really? You're going to give me 4 guys over the last 20 years as proof that the O's don't suck at developing players?

Even if you throw in Mussina, the O's record of drafting and developing players to consistently feed the ML club is pathetic.

Okay... can you give me four guys on any other team that are "homegrown" and on the roster now?

Here's the AL East...

Baltimore - Roberts, Markakis, Wieters

Boston - Pedroia, Youkilis, Ellsbury, Lester, Papelbon

New York - Jeter, Cano, Posada

Tampa Bay - Longoria, Shields, Upton

Toronto - Lind, Arencibia, Snider, Romero

[TGO]

Tampa Bay - Longoria, Shields, Upton

Here's one example. Add to those three Hellickson, Price, Niemann, Jaso, Brignac, E. Johnson.

[Dipper9]

Okay... can you give me four guys on any other team that are "homegrown" and on the roster now?

Here's the AL East...

Baltimore - Roberts, Markakis, Wieters

Boston - Pedroia, Youkilis, Ellsbury, Lester, Papelbon

New York - Jeter, Cano, Posada

Tampa Bay - Longoria, Shields, Upton

Toronto - Lind, Arencibia, Snider, Romero

Did you do any research on this or are you just throwing names out there? First of all, add Mariano to the Yanks list. Also their center fielder who's name escapes me at the moment. Tampa's entire team is made up of homegrown talent. And finally, even with your limited research, the only thing you've shown is that the other teams in the East have MORE homegrown talent than we do. Goofy post dude!

[btownoriole]

Did you do any research on this or are you just throwing names out there? First of all, add Mariano to the Yanks list. Also their center fielder who's name escapes me at the moment. Tampa's entire team is made up of homegrown talent. And finally, even with your limited research, the only thing you've shown is that the other teams in the East have MORE homegrown talent than we do. Goofy post dude!

On top of that, their homegrown talent is BETTER than ours, and its really not that close.

[El Gordo]

Because Roberts and Hardy are both unknown quantities as far as injuries and Cozart is likely better than Andino for cheaper than you'd find on the FA market.

I suspect Cozart would get plenty of playing time in an Orioles uniform as neither Roberts or Hardy can stay on the field for a full season.

Just look at how many ABs have been given to Andino.

Cozart is totally unproven in the ML and an insurance guy like Infante wouldn't cost that much. Why waste one of Hardy/Guthrie on him. We need to trade then for SP or bats if we trade them.

[Jagwar]

Okay... can you give me four guys on any other team that are "homegrown" and on the roster now?

Here's the AL East...

Baltimore - Roberts, Markakis, Wieters

Boston - Pedroia, Youkilis, Ellsbury, Lester, Papelbon

New York - Jeter, Cano, Posada

Tampa Bay - Longoria, Shields, Upton

Toronto - Lind, Arencibia, Snider, Romero

It's not just a matter of current rosters. Over the last 20 years, which players have the O's drafted and developed that became consistent, productive major leaguers?

[LookinUp]

I think people are a little focused on how to get better in this thread. If I'm building a team, first I start with pitching. We need it. Now, ask yourself this question:

Would you rather have Jones than a young legit stud pitcher?

Would you rather have Markakis than a young legit stud pitcher?

Would you rather have Hardy than a young legit stud pitcher?

Would you rather have Reynolds than a young legit stud pitcher?

If I'm the O's, and I'm thinking about what I need moving forward, I focus on pitching and moving guys who are potentially overvalued. That means Jones and Markakis first, and Hardy second (because of injury). I don't focus on moving them for bats. I focus on getting my pitching straight.

You also, of course, see what you can get for Guthrie. I like guys like Alonso and Belt, but if some team is willing to give me a comparably valued young starter, I'm taking that deal. If not, go get your Alonso.

Assuming we keep him, I definitely look to move Reynolds to 1B, with an eventual move to DH. I upgrade 3B on defense first.

I keep Scott, but only because his value is nil. Bring him back and hope he re-establishes himself by next trade deadline. If so, trade him, or maybe we'd be lucky to fall into a Type B situation.

Do what you want with the relievers.

My point is that we should get the pitching help we desperately need first. If we're open to moving one or more of Hardy/Jones/Markakis for pitching, we could solidify our staff moving forward (IMO). Beyond that, focus on defense first and supplement with bats where they're available.