TT: The Orioles must have an impact offseason

[weams]

I won't argue that Swisher is a jerk. But criticizing someone because he doesn't hit well in the postseason is silly when you're talking about a team that hasn't been to the postseason-- or even had a winning season-- in 14 years. That's like saying, "I don't want to sign this free agent. He hasn't gotten a single hit in December in his whole career!"

Just reaching the playoffs would be a miracle for the Orioles, and if Swisher can help them get there, he'd be worth his weight in gold.

Things really will be much nicer when we get to play Oct Baseball. It was great before, and it will be again. We are not the Cubs.

[OrioleMagic]

Nice article, but I think it is only "reactive" in the sense that it plugs holes with available FAs. I believe a "proactive" organizational perspective is absolutely necessary to start trending the Orioles organization in the right direction. I don't like Swisher, but for me it's simply because he's an ex-Yankee and he's another second level FA that will cost 10 million per year. We'd be better served giving a young guy with upside a shot and spending that money on scouting and player development and those overslot picks in the draft. We can't pretend we are a Swisher, Wilson, and Buerle away. We must focus on acquiring and developing young players. To do that, we need available playing time. I can't help but think that if we would have passed on Vladdie, and given Reimold the DH slot right out of spring training last year... Our record would not be any worse, we would have a better idea on whether Reimold can be a MLB player, and we would have had 8 more million we could spend on a big acquisition (for me it's Darvish, but I realize this is arguable).

Maybe when Angelos is gone we will have something to hope for.

[Tony-OH]

That's an excellent post. It's going to be a very, very hard sell to get even one good free agent to sign here, no metter who's the GM. Wilson and Buehrle are going to have plenty of suitors, the O's will have to Werth them to get ink on paper. An impact offseason, to me, means they're overhauling how they do buisness much more than any high caliber talent they try to bring in to the major league roster.

Normally I would agree with you but this organization can not continue to lose or they will have 7000 fans in the stadium every night. They might not be able to get those guys and in fact, I agree with you that it's unlikely, but there is a better chance of getting a guy like Wilson if you tell him you are spending to get more talent around him while showing him the young talent that is entering it's prime on this team.

Jones,

Markakis

Wieters

Reynolds

Hardy

Davis

Reimold

are either in their prime or heading into their prime. This team's lineup is set up quite nicely to improve, but the young pitchers we were counting didn't just have inconsistent years (Arrieta, Berken) some of them saw their stuff take a step back (Matusz, Tillman, Bergesen). This team needs a TOR and you just don't trade for those guys. Since they are unable to develop one, they'll need to sign one.

You may say it's a pipedream, and knowing the Orioles it probably is, but without going the free agency route, I have no idea how you are supposed to get one in the next few years.

Maybe you are ready for more years of futility under the pipe dream that we are going to develop our development system into something like Tampa, but I don't see that happening no matter what lip service an Orioles administration says.

[DrungoHazewood]

Nice article. I don't see Buehrle or Wilson coming here. I could see Darvish though. I'd prefer Willingham over Swisher and I think he'd be more realistic.

I don't see how. The Orioles rarely get into bidding wars for high-end players, and even less often win. They have never won a serious competition for a top foreign player. Combining probabilities the odds seem very remote.

[TGO]

Normally I would agree with you but this organization can not continue to lose or they will have 7000 fans in the stadium every night. They might not be able to get those guys and in fact, I agree with you that it's unlikely, but there is a better chance of getting a guy like Wilson if you tell him you are spending to get more talent around him while showing him the young talent that is entering it's prime on this team.

Jones,

Markakis

Wieters

Reynolds

Hardy

Davis

Reimold

are either in their prime or heading into their prime. This team's lineup is set up quite nicely to improve, but the young pitchers we were counting didn't just have inconsistent years (Arrieta, Berken) some of them saw their stuff take a step back (Matusz, Tillman, Bergesen). This team needs a TOR and you just don't trade for those guys. Since they are unable to develop one, they'll need to sign one.

You may say it's a pipedream, and knowing the Orioles it probably is, but without going the free agency route, I have no idea how you are supposed to get one in the next few years.

Maybe you are ready for more years of futility under the pipe dream that we are going to develop our development system into something like Tampa, but I don't see that happening no matter what lip service an Orioles administration says.

Respectfully, Tony, every team in baseball has a list like the one you posted. To get Wilson on the O's you'd need to show him a list like this:

1

2

0

mill

ion

dollars

(note: that's a hypothetical number as I really have no idea what he will command, but realistically speaking you're going to need to take his highest offer and add $15-20 million to it)

[DrungoHazewood]

Maybe you are ready for more years of futility under the pipe dream that we are going to develop our development system into something like Tampa, but I don't see that happening no matter what lip service an Orioles administration says.

It's obviously not what I want, but I just don't see a quick fix. I guess I'm back to where I was five years ago - do it right, or don't do it at all. Even if that means another five years. Because even sigining some free agents only slightly increases the odds of a playoff birth anytime soon, so even an impact offseason is likely just setting up to throw a hail mary.

[mweb]

I am much more in favor of a rebuild than a patchwork attempt to put together a solid team.

With that said, I agree with others that it would be very difficult to land either of those pitchers, nonetheless both of them.

I also think that team would be quite poor defensively. 1st and 3rd would likely be poor. If Brob is healthy he brings down the D some compared to Andino. I'm not much of a fan of Adam in CF and we don't know how well Swisher would be in LF. Overall, I'd only have much confidence in getting above average defensive production out of C and SS.

Offensively it would be a promising lineup though.

[CA-ORIOLE]

I don't see how. The Orioles rarely get into bidding wars for high-end players, and even less often win. They have never won a serious competition for a top foreign player. Combining probabilities the odds seem very remote.

Well, I agree with that. Of the three I just see him as being more realistically attainable if the Orioles actually decide to "pony up". Wilson/Buehrle have more choice (money/contender). Darvish's choice is limited if we meet the posting fee.

[NewMarketSean]

Josh Willingham and Jon Garland. These are your big 2012 FA acquisitions. Oh and maybe Cuddyer.

[wildcard]

Well I hope not because the last number one starter we developed was Erik Bedard and Mike Mussine before that. As much as I like Britton, I don't see him becoming a number one and with Matusz's stuff taking a step back, it's hard to imagine him behind more than a number two, and that's only if his stuff comes back. Dylan Bundy is the only guy in the system that could be projected as a number one and he hasn't thrown a professional pitch yet. At some point you gotta get one to compete and in my mind, you have to break that 14-year losing streak to get people back. As for Johnson, nothing and I mean nothing makes me think he would be anything more than a back of the rotation starter. His breaking ball is below average and he was never able to keep the velocity as a starter. Does he have a nice change, sure, but I thin his best role is in the bullpen, probably more as a setup guy because of his ability to get groundballs in crucial situations, but I'm not adverse to keeping him in the closer role. Strop might end up a closer anyways.

I am not really worried about getting a #1 starter at this point. I would rather have 7 starters that are of major league quality. A #1 starter only pitches each 4th or 5th game. The other 3 or 4 games are more important if the O's want to become a winner. Besides that, #1 starters have bad games too. The O's beat Verlander, Beckett and 5 or so other very good pitchers go down the stretch. They probably can't do that consistently but they will not lose all the games against opposing #1 starters either. If the O's could just put together a decent year maybe they could trade of the #1.

This off season the O's are probably going to try everything to supplement Guthrie, Britton, Arrieta, Matusz and Hunter. Looking internally at Johnson is probably their best shot at finding someone to step in and challenge those guys or fill their spot when they are injured or fail. Trading Tillman for an established, expensive starter is the 2nd way I can think of getting someone to challenge those guys. Free Agency will probably end up getting the O's another Omar Daal and Eaton and the O's really don't need to go there again.

I like what I have seen on Strop as a late inning reliever but I hope they don't go into next planning on him to be the closer. His minor league numbers don't suggest that he can be trusted to that level. Hopefully he can prove that he deserves the closer role during 2012 and the O's can stop spending to fill that role.

[Tony-OH]

I am much more in favor of a rebuild than a patchwork attempt to put together a solid team.

With that said, I agree with others that it would be very difficult to land either of those pitchers, nonetheless both of them.

I also think that team would be quite poor defensively. 1st and 3rd would likely be poor. If Brob is healthy he brings down the D some compared to Andino. I'm not much of a fan of Adam in CF and we don't know how well Swisher would be in LF. Overall, I'd only have much confidence in getting above average defensive production out of C and SS.

Offensively it would be a promising lineup though.

What we did last year was patch work when it came to adding Lee and Vlad. Adding Wilson, Buerle and Swisher are all guys on the back end of their prime, but still in it and will be able to contribute. I'm all for finding the pitching equivalent of Reynolds and Hardy, or players entering their prime who may need a change of scenery to get better, but I just don't know if they exist on the pitching side.

[Tony-OH]

I am not really worried about getting a #1 starter at this point. I would rather have 7 starters that are of major league quality. A #1 starter only pitches each 4th or 5th game. The other 3 or 4 games are more important if the O's want to become a winner. Besides that, #1 starters have bad games too. The O's beat Verlander, Beckett and 5 or so other very good pitchers go down the stretch. They probably can't do that consistently but they will not lose all the games against opposing #1 starters either. If the O's could just put together a decent year maybe they could trade of the #1.

This off season the O's are probably going to try everything to supplement Guthrie, Britton, Arrieta, Matusz and Hunter. Looking internally at Johnson is probably their best shot at finding someone to step in and challenge those guys or fill their spot when they are injured or fail. Trading Tillman for an established, expensive starter is the 2nd way I can think of getting someone to challenge those guys. Free Agency will probably end up getting the O's another Omar Daal and Eaton and the O's really don't need to go there again.

I like what I have seen on Strop as a late inning reliever but I hope they don't go into next planning on him to be the closer. His minor league numbers don't suggest that he can be trusted to that level. Hopefully he can prove that he deserves the closer role during 2012 and the O's can stop spending to fill that role.

Well then I guess you and I disagree on needing a number one starter. Look at the playoff teams, they all have one and some have two.

[Tony-OH]

Josh Willingham and Jon Garland. These are your big 2012 FA acquisitions. Oh and maybe Cuddyer.

Probably right, but this article is not what I think will happen, but what I would hope would happen.

[NewMarketSean]

Probably right, but this article is not what I think will happen, but what I would hope would happen.

Well if that was the cause I hope they get Pujols!

[Tony-OH]

Respectfully, Tony, every team in baseball has a list like the one you posted. To get Wilson on the O's you'd need to show him a list like this:

1

2

0

mill

ion

dollars

(note: that's a hypothetical number as I really have no idea what he will command, but realistically speaking you're going to need to take his highest offer and add $15-20 million to it)

I would not want to do it, but I would go 5/100 for Wilson. I would prefer to stay away from that 5th year, but he's a number one so you gotta pay the premium. But, if the Yankees and Red Sox get involved, I agree, we are not going to beat them .