We are all pissed and rightfully so...What can the Orioles do this offseason to change that?

[clapdiddy]

Olney came out and said Angelos was not as involved in Baseball Ops as people thought he was. But that suddenly gets ignored when Olney jumps on the blame-Angelos/Bash the Orioles train.

And all those writers made MacPhail seem like a victim. So it's hard to believe them.

There is a clear anti-Orioles bias in the media, but that's because of the struggles we've been having. Once there is a percieved wounded team out there, the media pounces to blow everything out of proportion and to sensationalize.

Once we start winning, they'll turn their attention to another team that is struggling.

I don't doubt that there is some validity to what I put in bold-face here. The Orioles are a struggling franchise and the media does play up when an organization is down and out.

The bigger question is "How did we get here?". There is only one constant in this organization over the last 14 years. PA has refused to let go of some questionable employees and has fired some competent people. Granted, this stuff happens everywhere...but he's taken a team that had everything going for it, and made it into a laughingstock. He's the only one to blame...there has been no one else here for that length of time.

[JTrea81]

I don't doubt that there is some validity to what I put in bold-face here. The Orioles are a struggling franchise and the media does play up when an organization is down and out.

The bigger question is "How did we get here?". There is only one constant in this organization over the last 14 years. PA has refused to let go of some questionable employees and has fired some competent people. Granted, this stuff happens everywhere...but he's taken a team that had everything going for it, and made it into a laughingstock. He's the only one to blame...there has been no one else here for that length of time.

That's fine, but let's give the guy the offseason to see if he can change that perception. He's brought in Buck Showalter to try to turn things around and he and Klentak have been bringing in the right names to interview, they've been active on waivers etc.

This offseason is a make or break, I think everybody knows that. The GM stuff hasn't been smooth, but they will get somebody and the club will move forward.

If at the end of the offseason things have just collapsed, then it will be time for all the "blame Angelos" stuff, but it might just be better to walk away at that point...

But until then, there is a major opportunity to improve this ballclub this offseason. And I do fully believe the Orioles intend to take advantage of it.

[Hank Scorpio]

Just when you thought the arguments couldn't get any more ridiculous...

[Sports Guy]

Olney came out and said Angelos was not as involved in Baseball Ops as people thought he was. But that suddenly gets ignored when Olney jumps on the blame-Angelos/Bash the Orioles train.

And all those writers made MacPhail seem like a victim. So it's hard to believe them.

There is a clear anti-Orioles bias in the media, but that's because of the struggles we've been having. Once there is a percieved wounded team out there, the media pounces to blow everything out of proportion and to sensationalize.

Once we start winning, they'll turn their attention to another team that is struggling.

First of all, where is that quote? Second of all, there have been reports to the contrary. Why do you choose to listen to one report when every other piece of evidence says otherwise?

[Hank Scorpio]

That's fine, but let's give the guy the offseason to see if he can change that perception. He's brought in Buck Showalter to try to turn things around and he and Klentak have been bringing in the right names to interview, they've been active on waivers etc.

This offseason is a make or break, I think everybody knows that. The GM stuff hasn't been smooth, but they will get somebody and the club will move forward.

If at the end of the offseason things have just collapsed, then it will be time for all the "blame Angelos" stuff, but it might just be better to walk away at that point...

Seriously, what do you expect this offseason?

[Dipper9]

That's fine, but let's give the guy the offseason to see if he can change that perception. He's brought in Buck Showalter to try to turn things around and he and Klentak have been bringing in the right names to interview, they've been active on waivers etc.

This offseason is a make or break, I think everybody knows that. The GM stuff hasn't been smooth, but they will get somebody and the club will move forward.

If at the end of the offseason things have just collapsed, then it will be time for all the "blame Angelos" stuff, but it might just be better to walk away at that point...

But until then, there is a major opportunity to improve this ballclub this offseason. And I do fully believe the Orioles intend to take advantage of it.

[JTrea81]

First of all, where is that quote? Second of all, there have been reports to the contrary. Why do you choose to listen to one report when every other piece of evidence says otherwise?

Orioles owner Peter Angelos is less involved in baseball operations than it may seem and manager Buck Showalter would love to work with bright executives, but outside executives don’t see Baltimore as an attractive place to work.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2011/11/olney-on-orioles-red-sox-cubs.html

Every piece of evidence is being spun into "blame Angelos" instead of being taken at face value.

I'm sure every owner has some people in their FO that they won't let the GM touch. Just look at Ricketts and the guy he signed to an extension before Theo got there.

But a good executive can work around and minimize problems with those people IMO.

[JTrea81]

Seriously, what do you expect this offseason?

Major movement toward competition.

Buck isn't here to lose.

[TonySoprano]

Every piece of evidence is being spun into "blame MacPhail" instead of being taken at face value.

fixed that for you to represent your "body of work" since Teixeira.

[TiredofLosing20]

he and Klentak have been bringing in the right names to interview,

Yet none of those "right names" want the job. Wonder why that is.

[Dipper9]

Major movement toward competition.

Buck isn't here to lose.

You sound like a chicken....Buuuuuuuuuuck buckbuckbuckbuck buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck buckbuckbuckbuck.

Seriously Trea,,,I love me some Buck, but he is not the savior that you seem to think he is. He has a good gig in a kids sport, is making lots of money, and has power. That's why he's here.

[TiredofLosing20]

Orioles owner Peter Angelos is less involved in baseball operations than it may seem and manager Buck Showalter would love to work with bright executives, but outside executives don?t see Baltimore as an attractive place to work.

Why do you think the bolded is the case?

[Sports Guy]

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2011/11/olney-on-orioles-red-sox-cubs.html

Every piece of evidence is being spun into "blame Angelos" instead of being taken at face value.

I'm sure every owner has some people in their FO that they won't let the GM touch. Just look at Ricketts and the guy he signed to an extension before Theo got there.

But a good executive can work around and minimize problems with those people IMO.

That's because its true!!!!!

BTW, Olney said less involved than it MAY seem...That doesn't mean he isn't involved too much.

Where does your praising of PA stem from? Who are you listening to that tells you differently?

[DrungoHazewood]

Why wouldn't Prince want to play in Baltimore? Great park, fans, chance to hit 40+ HR every year and gets to compete against the Yankees and Red Sox.

Oh, I don't know, maybe the 14 straight losing seasons, the worst pitching in baseball, the great ballpark that's only ever filled by Sox and Yanks fans, the total chaos in the front office, the crazy old owner who now can't even get a GM to work for him... Except for the "gets to compete against (and mostly lose to) the Yankees and Sox" part, there are 20 other teams who offer the same thing, plus winning.

The key is going to be the $ offered and the recruiting job.

I really don't think money is going to have anything to do with it. The O's and Buck's Strategic Planning Committee are going to offer something like 6/150, other teams will, too, and nobody in their right mind would pick the Loony Tunes Orioles over any other team.

LaCava turned down the situtation not because of money, but it seems because of the restrictions.

Executives that have a job and player free agents that are looking for one are two different situations.

Players are looking for a situation to succeed. If the money is close, they're going to the quality organization that has a chance to win. Prince and his agent have to view the Orioles as a laughingstock - can't get GMs to even interview, the ones that do come away aghast, running in fear. They haven't won in a generation, they have this nutso organization where the manager reports directly to the senile owner who stocks the front office with his buddies...

It's amazing anyone could look at the O's and think they're a reasonable destination for any player who isn't completely desperate.

[scOtt]

You can't make somebody take a job they don't want.

And I still think Anthopoulos played a huge role in convincing LaCava to turn down the job...

LaCava was willing to work around Stockstill and was offered plenty of money, so PGA should not recieve the majority of blame here IMO. He was even going to let him bring in seven of his guys, something I don't think any GM under Angelos has been allowed to do. If you want to blame somebody for LaCava turning down the job, blame Tony LaCava.

LaCava knew what he was in for, and he strung the Orioles along IMO.

But the fact that Angelos is Angelos and the fact LaCava is on a Top 20 GM list means that Peter Angelos is to blame for everything in the whole entire process.

I just can't wait until we get a GM and finally start making some huge moves to silence the Angelos bashing.

I'm not saying it hasn't been warranted in the past, but it's getting really tiring to hear over and over again, and it is creating a perception problem among the Orioles when that problem may no longer exist on the scale people think it does.

Either way, we'll know one way or another this offseason when it actually gets going...

Now back to the regularly scheduled Angelos bashing...

I meant Buck should have put his foot down to Angelos. "This is the guy we want and if he wants to let some people go you have to let him do that, Peter."