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O's two "Win Now" guys in the top management positions.

wildcard

By wildcard
in Orioles Talk

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MikeAD Hangout Grand Counsel

MikeAD

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Wildcard, you've got to to be the most optimistic poster on this site. We can really stop with "This will be different. " Seriously? Why? What about now is different than the previous several years?

Angelos will not let the deals happen that need to be happen. He won't increase payroll to cover the loss of the deals that need to happen.

Nothing will change.

The fact that you quantify AM as "win later" means there is super duper no hope now because AM was a shining, glimmering, covered in glitter hope. He had the tools and the experience to do what was needed to turn the franchise around and he wasn't able to. Do you honestly believe that AM just checked out after the Bedard and Tejada trades? There is not a chance. If that was the case he would have stayed, considering he was still wanted around the organization.

Give it a rest, nothing is going to change as long as a certain man is in charge.

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wildcard Hangout Grand Counsel

wildcard

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Wildcard, you've got to to be the most optimistic poster on this site. We can really stop with "This will be different. " Seriously? Why? What about now is different than the previous several years?

Angelos will not let the deals happen that need to be happen. He won't increase payroll to cover the loss of the deals that need to happen.

Nothing will change.

The fact that you quantify AM as "win later" means there is super duper no hope now because AM was a shining, glimmering, covered in glitter hope. He had the tools and the experience to do what was needed to turn the franchise around and he wasn't able to. Do you honestly believe that AM just checked out after the Bedard and Tejada trades? There is not a chance. If that was the case he would have stayed, considering he was still wanted around the organization.

Give it a rest, nothing is going to change as long as a certain man is in charge.

I liked MacPhail. I think he left the team younger with a load of potential. Its a shame the injuries and non development of the pitching staff hurt the team so much last year. He was squeezed out by Buck wanting more power and Angelos wanting to keep his friends on the payroll. MacPhail knew when to leave.

I think the mentality will be different. The focus will be to win in the near term because that is the way both Buck and Duke think. The Payroll will not necessarily to increased. The focus will be on improving the pitching. I don't see a Fielder or Wilson in the O's future. Instead I see a fair amount of internal competition as the O's add depth to the system. Watch the Far East Market which I think the O's will use to increase the depth.

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MikeAD Hangout Grand Counsel

MikeAD

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I liked MacPhail. I think he left the team younger with a load of potential. Its a shame the injuries and non development of the pitching staff hurt the team so much last year. He was squeezed out by Buck wanting more power and Angelos wanting to keep his friends on the payroll. MacPhail knew when to leave.

I think the mentality will be different. The focus will be to win in the near term because that is the way both Buck and Duke think. The Payroll will not necessarily to increased. The focus will be on improving the pitching. I don't see a Fielder or Wilson in the O's future. Instead I see a fair amount of internal competition as the O's add depth to the system. Watch the Far East Market which I think the O's will use to increase the depth.

God, I hope you're right man!

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Frobby Hangout Grand Counsel

Frobby

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One thing that sticks out with DD is that he has a 3 year deal. He cant sacrifice a year to rebuild or "win later". Whether that is good or bad, who knows.

I think the rebuild option sort of went out the window at the trade deadline. Duquette will be more about retooling than rebuilding. You might see some major trades, but probably not trades that are 90% future-oriented.

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Fan4Life Hangout Veteran Council

Fan4Life

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I liked MacPhail. I think he left the team younger with a load of potential. Its a shame the injuries and non development of the pitching staff hurt the team so much last year. He was squeezed out by Buck wanting more power and Angelos wanting to keep his friends on the payroll. MacPhail knew when to leave.

I agree with most of this. AM had is flaws for sure, but the last 2 years of crappy baseball being played in Baltimore isn't one of them. (or should that be 2?). The players we trotted out in 2010 and 2011 failed to perform to the level of expectations. That isn't on AM.

Of the flaws AM had/has, I would correlate most of them to the owner.

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Frobby Hangout Grand Counsel

Frobby

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Duke didn't sound much like a "win now" guy at the presser either.

Agreed. He was very clear that building the organization was more important than signing flashy free agents. At the same time, he certainly gave the impression that he wants to build around the core already here, rather than rebuilding.

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JTrea81 Hangout Grand Counsel

JTrea81

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Agreed. He was very clear that building the organization was more important than signing flashy free agents. At the same time, he certainly gave the impression that he wants to build around the core already here, rather than rebuilding.

It will be pretty tough to build around this core when just about all of them are elligible for FA by the time his contract expires. Hardy is on a three year deal, Jones is a FA after 2013, Wieters is a FA after 2015. And they aren't getting any younger as all are just about entering their prime if not in it already. Now is the time to strike.

Homegrown players usually take 3-4 years to develop at least before they can contribute effectively at the ML level so you are just wasting valuable production for the core players by not going for it now.

He's got to augment via trades and FA and win now, or blow the whole thing up. Otherwise he's doing what MacPhail did - tread water...

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