Do you approve of DD's first trade?

[DrungoHazewood]

...and a guy who has similar peers out there all the time that could be had for less than what we gave up.

I really just can't get upset about trading a guy who could become Matt Albers in 2-3 years if everything breaks right. If Henry is the O's 18th-best prospect that means he's something like the 600th or 700th-best prospect in baseball. It's simply nothing to get worked up about, at all. The most likely outcome of this trade is the Orioles gave up 0.25 WAR and acquired 1 WAR.

[SteveO]

Tatum has never thrown over 34% of basestealers, Teagarden had 54% last year and 38% two years ago.

Tatum is 29, Teagarden is 27.

Tatum has once had an OPS over .750. (minors included) Teagarden has had 4 season with an OPS over .950.

Tatum has no power. Teagarden does.

Despite everyone saying there are attainable equivalent alternatives to Teagarden I don't see any at that salary, with those skills, and that offensive potential.

:agree:

We gave up at best a marginal pitching prospect for a guy who can be a young, solid and productive backup catcher. Its a position of need, they filled it with a guy who frankly is far more appealing and more upside than Ivan Rodriquez, Varitek etc.... and people are complaining?????? Get a grip on reality folks. This is a good trade.

Guy who can contribute now for guy who may never contribute at all and was not in your long term plans = good move DUH

[OrioleMagic]

I just don't think it is an obvious mistake. I think it could be a great trade for us. Teagarden could blossom and be traded for much more than Henry. Regarding Buck, how do we know this is Buck's trade? and even if it is, DD likely would have had to concur with it... I think most GMs listen to their manager's recommendations.

To me the trade itself and any possible influence by Buck isn't that big of an issue. I fall in line with Frobby's thread about the little moves.

[ccbird]

Too bad this was a Buck trade, not a DD trade.

I don't doubt that Buck does have extra influence into player management but all managers have input and ask for certain players. IMO, if Dave Trembley was still here and told DD he would like to have Teagarden my guess is the deal would have got made for him too. It's just not that big a deal and one were it seems a GM would look to accommodate his managers wishes.

[DrungoHazewood]

What don't you understand? My argument is pretty logical and laid out in a very obvious way.

It lacks context, it ignores the magnitude of the deal. Your arguments are fine, they aren't inconsistent, they make sense. But who cares? They traded the 700th-best prospect in baseball for a halfway decent backup catcher. This has no discernable impact on the Orioles future.

[SteveO]

I really just can't get upset about trading a guy who could become Matt Albers in 2-3 years if everything breaks right. If Henry is the O's 18th-best prospect that means he's something like the 600th or 700th-best prospect in baseball. It's simply nothing to get worked up about, at all. The most likely outcome of this trade is the Orioles gave up 0.25 WAR and acquired 1 WAR.

The people who get upset about this trade are the same clowns who wanna trade make trades like Reimhold and Andino for Cain or Gio Gonzalez. They are completely clueless about how to evaluate talent. This kid the Orioles traded as the poster said is not a stud, cant miss or premier prospect. I will even go so far as to say when you consider the lack of talent in our minors this kid might not have cracked the top 30 of another organizations prospect list.

Bottom line is the Orioles sent a guy who really was not a meaningful part of their long term plans for a guy who can fill a position of need now and do it economically so that those resources can be spent elsewhere. That's a win in any objective fans book.

[Lucky Jim]

I really just can't get upset about trading a guy who could become Matt Albers in 2-3 years if everything breaks right. If Henry is the O's 18th-best prospect that means he's something like the 600th or 700th-best prospect in baseball. It's simply nothing to get worked up about, at all. The most likely outcome of this trade is the Orioles gave up 0.25 WAR and acquired 1 WAR.

It lacks context, it ignores the magnitude of the deal. Your arguments are fine, they aren't inconsistent, they make sense. But who cares? They traded the 700th-best prospect in baseball for a halfway decent backup catcher. This has no discernable impact on the Orioles future.

Pretty much the line-of-inquiry/argument many of us have been laying out. It's an intellectual habit of SG's - and not always a bad one - to take the form of a transaction - what it symbolizes - and give it value according to that. It dials up a lot of accountability, but it does so at the cost of meaningful context.

[Sports Guy]

It lacks context, it ignores the magnitude of the deal. Your arguments are fine, they aren't inconsistent, they make sense. But who cares? They traded the 700th-best prospect in baseball for a halfway decent backup catcher. This has no discernable impact on the Orioles future.

There was no discernable impact on the future when they signed guys like Gregg, Payton, Bradford, Mora, etc.....So, why did we discuss those things?

You have sat here time and time again and complained that the Orioles spend 3M on a reliever or a role player instead of getting the same player for 500K...So, why are you allowed to discuss things that have no future impact but I'm not?

Or do you just choose to have a double standard?

[Sports Guy]

Pretty much the line-of-inquiry/argument many of us have been laying out. It's an intellectual habit of SG's - and not always a bad one - to take the form of a transaction - what it symbolizes - and give it value according to that. It dials up a lot of accountability, but it does so at the cost of meaningful context.

This organization has made tons of small, stupid moves over the course of the last several years.

None of which really matter but all of which point to a greater issue and those issues are why the organization is so screwed up.

I remember working down there and we had to get a season ticket mailer out...on the day we were supposed to stuff the envelopes and get the stuff sent out, they just then realized that they had the wrong envelopes for what we had to get sent out.

It was a small thing...we could get the right envelopes a few days later and the season ticket holders wouldn't even know the difference...but it was a little sign into how screwed up and unorganized things were at times.

[DrungoHazewood]

There was no discernable impact on the future when they signed guys like Gregg, Payton, Bradford, Mora, etc.....So, why did we discuss those things?

You have sat here time and time again and complained that the Orioles spend 3M on a reliever or a role player instead of getting the same player for 500K...So, why are you allowed to discuss things that have no future impact but I'm not?

Or do you just choose to have a double standard?

Just stop with the over-the-top stuff when anyone disagrees with you. As I said, your arguments sometimes lack context. When you equate Mora and Gregg and Payton and Bradford and their multi-million dollar salaries and long-term commitments to a decent middle reliever from Frederick you prove the point.

[DrungoHazewood]

This organization has made tons of small, stupid moves over the course of the last several years.

None of which really matter but all of which point to a greater issue and those issues are why the organization is so screwed up.

I remember working down there and we had to get a season ticket mailer out...on the day we were supposed to stuff the envelopes and get the stuff sent out, they just then realized that they had the wrong envelopes for what we had to get sent out.

It was a small thing...we could get the right envelopes a few days later and the season ticket holders wouldn't even know the difference...but it was a little sign into how screwed up and unorganized things were at times.

Everything isn't always a sign of larger trends. Sometimes you just trade a C prospect for a backup catcher. Even the Red Sox and Yankees do that. Really.

[Sports Guy]

Just stop with the over-the-top stuff when anyone disagrees with you. As I said, your arguments sometimes lack context. When you equate Mora and Gregg and Payton and Bradford and their multi-million dollar salaries and long-term commitments to a decent middle reliever from Frederick you prove the point.

Wait a minute...You said its a move that will have no impact on our future...Neither were those moves.

Who cares that the money was spent. Its not like it was going to go to amateur signings or something intelligent.

It was either pissed away on a reliever or Vlad or whoever or going in PAs pocket.

So, if those moves have no discernable outcome to the future, why not have a who cares, this is a waste of time to discuss mentality?

Sorry but that's a total bs argument by you.

[Lucky Jim]

This organization has made tons of small, stupid moves over the course of the last several years.

None of which really matter but all of which point to a greater issue and those issues are why the organization is so screwed up.

I remember working down there and we had to get a season ticket mailer out...on the day we were supposed to stuff the envelopes and get the stuff sent out, they just then realized that they had the wrong envelopes for what we had to get sent out.

It was a small thing...we could get the right envelopes a few days later and the season ticket holders wouldn't even know the difference...but it was a little sign into how screwed up and unorganized things were at times.

Thank you for illustrating my point, as if on cue.

[SteveO]

Its beyond me whats to complain about. Teagarden is a much better player and has a much higher upside than Tatum. They did not give up a high level prospect they gave up a guy who is getting as much conversation now as he likely will at any time in his career.

Those who say this is a Buck move just do not understand how DD works. This move has DD written all over it. DD is big on finding guys who are 3rd or 4th on another teams depth chart who have upside and bringing them in to compete for back up positions. This allows him to commit resources in other areas instead of wasting them on the likes of Varitek, Posada, Rodriguez etc.... This is exactly the kind of move that I like about DD, I want a kid who has potential not some guy who is a scrub like Tatum you can pick up off the trash heap.

[Sports Guy]

Its beyond me whats to complain about. Teagarden is a much better player and has a much higher upside than Tatum. They did not give up a high level prospect they gave up a guy who is getting as much conversation now as he likely will at any time in his career.

Those who say this is a Buck move just do not understand how DD works. This move has DD written all over it. DD is big on finding guys who are 3rd or 4th on another teams depth chart who have upside and bringing them in to compete for back up positions. This allows him to commit resources in other areas instead of wasting them on the likes of Varitek, Posada, Rodriguez etc.... This is exactly the kind of move that I like about DD, I want a kid who has potential not some guy who is a scrub like Tatum you can pick up off the trash heap.

You have p[roven many times on this site that this statement is very accurate.