Unhappy Scouts??

[Lucky Jim]

Consider an entry by Roch has

Sounds like we don't want to keep these guys on board and pay for new guys right away. In that light this move could appear to be a way to get out from under these contracts if any of them choose to leave.

I'm guessing it's being looked at from a longer term perspective and the short term inefficiencies are an accepted consequence.

Okay, but that sure is an underhanded way to go about it, no? Don't think scouts from other orgs aren't taking notice.

I think all of this may be correct.

[Stotle]

This may not be what they are doing. Could be the re-assigned scouts are doing some previously unmanned type of scouting. Maybe something totally new to the organization. Hence why the term "joke assignment" has been thrown around.

Well when Tony says "another pair of eyes" that is essentially what bird dogs do. If that's the role they are playing than it is a slap in the face for sure.

If they are serving more in a cross-checking capacity then I guess it depends on where they fit into the hierarchy. Who are they reporting to? If it's the regional cross-checker then he's now asked to balance their opinions with the opinions of the area scouts in the region. That's what the previous poster was touching on when he spoke about "muddling up the process."

Regional cross-checkers have to sort through the area reports and figure out the top guys to see. Then the nat'l cross-checker and scouting director have to sort through which of the regional guys they need to travel and see in person. If the new scouts are sort of floating around in limbo, it's not really a great place for them to be, and I have to think it makes it tough for the guys higher up the chain to determine what sort of comparative weight to give their evals as opposed to the area scouts.

There are a lot of different ways the specifics coudl work out, but I don't see how this is a move that benefits the team in the short run. Further, teams have generally filled their scouting departments, so is Baltimore planning on trying to poach in order to fill the new pro scout openings? Or are they operating with just 2 pro scouts for the time being?

I guess I just don't see the point of all of this. If you don't like the guys, fire them. If you really are just restructuring and want to move them to a different area, why not do that in a more gradual fashion -- especially when the benefits seem to be almost none for 2012, and the negatives, at best, are losing out on eyes watching the pros for the time being.

[Stotle]

I'm guessing it's being looked at from a longer term perspective and the short term inefficiencies are an accepted consequence.

Maybe. But it's not a great way to publicly treat these guys. Especially if you want to bring others into your organization.

I guess it doesn't ultimately matter, but it seems like an odd way to conduct business.

[Tony-OH]

Okay, but that sure is an underhanded way to go about it, no? Don't think scouts from other orgs aren't taking notice.

Why is it underhanded? Duquette just came on board. I'm sure he's still doing his evaluations of the organization. The timing is not Duquette's fault so I don't see why you are portraying this as underhanded.

[Malike]

Maybe. But it's not a great way to publicly treat these guys. Especially if you want to bring others into your organization.

I guess it doesn't ultimately matter, but it seems like an odd way to conduct business.

I agree with you, Nick, but we still don't have enough information other than a vague tweet to really figure out what is going on. I'd hope that they would treat their scouts with the utmost respect and professionalism, even if they decided to kill the advanced department and reassign them.

[Lucky Jim]

There are a lot of different ways the specifics coudl work out, but I don't see how this is a move that benefits the team in the short run. Further, teams have generally filled their scouting departments, so is Baltimore planning on trying to poach in order to fill the new pro scout openings? Or are they operating with just 2 pro scouts for the time being?

As per Roch:

New scouting director Gary Rajsich is going to want to build his own staff, so you can expect more changes to come after next season.

In the meantime, the Orioles will rely more on video and statistical analysis while evaluating players on other teams.

[Stotle]

Why is it underhanded? Duquette just came on board. I'm sure he's still doing his evaluations of the organization. The timing is not Duquette's fault so I don't see why you are portraying this as underhanded.

It's underhanded if you're using it as a way to get people to quit so you don't have to pay them (which is what I was responding to).

[Stotle]

As per Roch:

That makes perfect sense; that's what I'd expect.

[Lucky Jim]

It's underhanded if you're using it as a way to get people to quit so you don't have to pay them (which is what I was responding to).

Right. If it's done as a means of force-voiding contractual obligations, it's legal, but poor form.

[Stotle]

I agree with you, Nick, but we still don't have enough information other than a vague tweet to really figure out what is going on. I'd hope that they would treat their scouts with the utmost respect and professionalism, even if they decided to kill the advanced department and reassign them.

Sure, I understand. I'm not passing judgment -- I am just responding to some theories.

[Tony-OH]

Maybe. But it's not a great way to publicly treat these guys. Especially if you want to bring others into your organization.

I guess it doesn't ultimately matter, but it seems like an odd way to conduct business.

I don't understand your take at all. Why is this an odd way of conducting business? As someone who hopes to break into this world fullt0ime at some point, I hope you realize that when a new guy takes over, they bring their guys with them and usher others out. It doesn't always mean the guys getting ushered out are not good scouts, it just means the new guy in charge has his guys or his way of doing things and if you don't fit or one of his guys are available, you are probably going to be let go.

All of the scouts in the organization have contracts that run through next year, so it's not cost efficient to just fire everyone. Both Duquette and Rajsich will most likely want a year to evaluate their staffs, but in some cases changes will be made immediately. The guys he reassigned have contracts so he's probably trying to find a way to use them since they are paying them. I don't see the problem. Maybe he reassigned them to something they don't want to do in hopes they will resign? Honestly, if you don't want a guy and the guy is under contract, it makes some sense to put them in a position in which they may quit.

Here's what we know. The Orioles have sucked for 14 years. We've gone through GM after GM but no real change was ever done with a our scouting and development. Duquette is invoking some true shakeup and although sometimes that means good people get moved or fired, it's something that probably was long overdue. I don't see anything underhanded or odd about any of this. I see this as a guy invoking change and that might be painful for the legacy guys.

[baltfan]

Okay, but that sure is an underhanded way to go about it, no? Don't think scouts from other orgs aren't taking notice.

I think you are great Stotle, but you have to be kidding me. Are you telling me that an employer that has people under contract but wants to bring in others to do their job has to eat the contract vs. reassign them to provide some service to the organization? I am sorry, times are tough for everyone. Most people I know that have jobs are doing the work of what used to be two people at their jobs now. I have a heard time feeling sorry for these demoted scouts. If they think the pay isn't worth the job, then just quit. It is very simple.

[GoldGlove21]

Well when Tony says "another pair of eyes" that is essentially what bird dogs do. If that's the role they are playing than it is a slap in the face for sure.

If they are serving more in a cross-checking capacity then I guess it depends on where they fit into the hierarchy. Who are they reporting to? If it's the regional cross-checker then he's now asked to balance their opinions with the opinions of the area scouts in the region. That's what the previous poster was touching on when he spoke about "muddling up the process."

Regional cross-checkers have to sort through the area reports and figure out the top guys to see. Then the nat'l cross-checker and scouting director have to sort through which of the regional guys they need to travel and see in person. If the new scouts are sort of floating around in limbo, it's not really a great place for them to be, and I have to think it makes it tough for the guys higher up the chain to determine what sort of comparative weight to give their evals as opposed to the area scouts.

There are a lot of different ways the specifics coudl work out, but I don't see how this is a move that benefits the team in the short run. Further, teams have generally filled their scouting departments, so is Baltimore planning on trying to poach in order to fill the new pro scout openings? Or are they operating with just 2 pro scouts for the time being?

I guess I just don't see the point of all of this. If you don't like the guys, fire them. If you really are just restructuring and want to move them to a different area, why not do that in a more gradual fashion -- especially when the benefits seem to be almost none for 2012, and the negatives, at best, are losing out on eyes watching the pros for the time being.

I am not sure how to react to this news. Could be good or bad depending on why it was done and how they went about doing it. The Orioles haven't been drafting and developing great players over the last decade and the international market was pretty much ignored. It sounds like change could be a good thing. As far as the pro scout thing goes, I want our guys to find good young players that can actually sign with us verses identifying guys that we may want. Most of us can catch a game and see what guys we like. As far as scouting our competition for competiveness goes... 2012 is starting to look like a lets add depth and see what we really have year. I think this year is sink or swim for a lot of the guys that we wouldn't expect to see moved.

[24fps]

Okay, but that sure is an underhanded way to go about it, no? Don't think scouts from other orgs aren't taking notice.

It's not underhanded at all for a new regime (call it what you will) to insist on having it's own people in positions it considers critical for success. No one's contract is being voided, there's time to continue receiving a check while exploring other options on their own time and finally there's opportunity to prove they fit in with the new order of things if they're so inclined.

Of the many things scouts from other organizations could take notice of, I hope one of them is that the scouting/development arm of the Oriole's shouldn't be equated with the Civil Service. If Duquette's here to actually get stuff done, then this is a healthy step IMO.

[Stotle]

I don't understand your take at all. Why is this an odd way of conducting business? As someone who hopes to break into this world fullt0ime at some point, I hope you realize that when a new guy takes over, they bring their guys with them and usher others out. It doesn't always mean the guys getting ushered out are not good scouts, it just means the new guy in charge has his guys or his way of doing things and if you don't fit or one of his guys are available, you are probably going to be let go.

All of the scouts in the organization have contracts that through next year, so it's not cost efficient to just fire everyone. Both Duquette and Rajsich will most likely want a year to evaluate their staffs, but in some cases changes will be made immediately. The guys he reassigned have contracts so he's probably trying to find a way to use them since they are paying them. I don't see the problem. Maybe he reassigned them to something they don't want to do in hopes they will resign? Honestly, if you don't want a guy and the guy is under contract, it makes some sense to put them in a position in which they may quit.

Here's what we know. The Orioles have sucked for 14 years. We've gone through GM after GM but no real change was ever done with a our scouting and development. Duquette is invoking some true shakeup and although sometimes that means good people get moved or fired, it's something that probably was long overdue. I don't see anythig underhanded or add about any of this. I see this as a guy invoking change and that might be painful for the legacy guys.

First, if I wanted to do scout full time, I would be doing it. The uncertainty of employment, as well as the microscopic pay, is a big reason I am electing to do it as a side gig.

Second, Baltimore is vacating pro scouting positions BEFORE they have any replacements. How does that benefit the team in the short term or the long term?

As for the bolded, as Lucky Jim said, "it's legal, but poor form."