"Defending the Status Quo?"

[mikegallo]

Imagine where this team would be if AM wasn't so hung up on getting that quantity and he would have pulled the trigger on Kershaw and Kemp package instead...what a mistake, even at the time it seemed dumb not to go after the top flight talent package versus the good quantity package.

If we don't extend or trade Jones the Prado JJ and top flight pitching propect package we could have got from the Braves is gonna hurt us....Both Prado and JJ have had two seasons each in which they had higher WARs then Jones has ever had plus one of there great pitching propects (which is just my guess) was a really undervalued package around here.

[Frobby]

This comment seems a little far-fetched to me, I mean Bedard was coming off a 200 strikeout season and pitchers like that seem to command a ransom back...Jones is a guy with plus power at CF but he has low walk rates and suspect D according to the stats....Now if you are arguing we will end up getting as much talent as the actual amount of talent we got for bedard I could see that..

But if you are saying were gonna get as much talent for Jones as the periceved talent we got for Bedard at the time I doubt it but I guess it could happen.

Mickolio and Butler were dime a dozen guys.

Sherrill was as well but he had some ML experience.

The trade was Tillman and Jones. 2 high ceiling but flawed players, one of which was at least 1 year away from the majors.

I have no doubt we can get that much or more for Jones. We may not get the quantity but I think we get as much or more quality for Jones.

The big negative on Bedard when we traded him was that he was demonstrably injury-prone. That said, market conditions were such that we got a king's ransom for him. Jones has a more consistent track record than Bedard, though none of his seasons have been as outstanding as Bedard's 2006-07 seasons were.

I disagree with SG that Sherrill was seen as a "dime a dozen" guy or that Butler was a mere throw-in. Butler was the Mariners' #4 prospect according to BA. Sherrill was an outstanding LOOGY who the Orioles (correctly) thought could be converted to a closer. We got a ton of value in that trade. We'll be lucky to do that well when we trade Jones, though I think he could bring a nice package.

[Sports Guy]

The big negative on Bedard when we traded him was that he was demonstrably injury-prone. That said, market conditions were such that we got a king's ransom for him. Jones has a more consistent track record than Bedard, though none of his seasons have been as outstanding as Bedard's 2006-07 seasons were.

I disagree with SG that Sherrill was seen as a "dime a dozen" guy or that Butler was a mere throw-in. Butler was the Mariners' #4 prospect according to BA. Sherrill was an outstanding LOOGY who the Orioles (correctly) thought could be converted to a closer. We got a ton of value in that trade. We'll be lucky to do that well when we trade Jones, though I think he could bring a nice package.

Butler was always the guy with a ceiling but unlikely to become anything. His command and control were poor IIRC.

Good LOOGY or not, GS was just a LOOGY. He proved the idea that spending a lot on a closer is a terrible use of resources. He was/is a good pitcher but you can find a lot of guys like him.

[waroriole]

If you think Kershaw and Kemp were on the table and Andy turned it down, I would like to discuss some land I've got for sale with you.

Don't forget the Votto Hamilton Bruce Stubbs and Cuetto deal too

[weams]

If you think Kershaw and Kemp were on the table and Andy turned it down, I would like to discuss some land I've got for sale with you.

It was Loney and Billingsley. You are very, very right.

[Frobby]

Don't forget the Votto Hamilton Bruce Stubbs and Cuetto deal too

That was never on the table. According to every rumor published at the time, MacPhail repeatedly asked for Bruce and was told he was untouchable. I do recall some rumored deals featuring Votto, Cueto and Stubbs and some other pieces. I'm not sure Hamilton was ever in a package with both Votto and Cueto. In any event, Hamilton was traded by the Reds seven weeks before the Orioles traded Bedard.

[weams]

Don't forget the Votto Hamilton Bruce Stubbs and Cuetto deal too

It was Hamilton and Bailey.

[waroriole]

That was never on the table. According to every rumor published at the time, MacPhail repeatedly asked for Bruce and was told he was untouchable. I do recall some rumored deals featuring Votto, Cueto and Stubbs and some other pieces. I'm not sure Hamilton was ever in a package with both Votto and Cueto. In any event, Hamilton was traded by the Reds seven weeks before the Orioles traded Bedard.

It was Hamilton and Bailey.

Yeah I know........just a poor joke

[Frobby]

Yeah I know........just a poor joke

It was a pretty decent joke, once recognized as such. Around here, you never know.

[Moose Milligan]

I got my wrist slapped for pretty much accusing Bilbo point-blank of being MSK in sock-puppet mode.

To me, the similarities ? in style and substance ? between the two posters are far too close to be mere coincidence. But I'll let others draw their own conclusions:

http://forum.orioleshangout.com/forums/showthread.php/98349-Adam-Jones-race-and-misrepresentations?highlight=

http://forum.orioleshangout.com/forums/showthread.php/87328-Schizophrenia-on-the-Hangout?highlight=

http://forum.orioleshangout.com/forums/showthread.php/85406-The-1st-Amendment-and-the-Orioles-Hangout-Message-Boards?highlight=

Wow, it really is MSK.

[Lucky Jim]

Wow, it really is MSK.

I forgot about the sublime stupidity of that First Amendment thread.

[Moose Milligan]

I forgot about the sublime stupidity of that First Amendment thread.

Racist.

[BilboBaggins]

Wow, it really is MSK.

Now you're going to say this crazy thing again?

:angryfire:

[Moose Milligan]

Now you're going to say this crazy thing again?

:angryfire:

It's cool dude, just admit it.

[McNulty]

Now you're going to say this crazy thing again?

:angryfire:

I'll buy your book if you admit it.