Mussina elected to Orioles Hall of Fame! (Also Dauer and Youse) w/Mussina reaction

[Dipper9]

Oh boy' date=' now we've dragged Mike's mom into the thread.[/quote']

I always hated that woman!

:rofl:

[Tony-OH]

I really don't have a problem with your opinion that Mussina was a turncoat, even though I disagree with it. Lots of people obviously feel the way you do. But to me, Mussina is being inducted to the Orioles Hall of Fame based on what he did when he was wearing an Orioles uniform, plain and simple. He did more in that uniform than about 80% of the players who are already in the Orioles Hall of Fame. That is all I need to know. His Orioles career is his Orioles career and his Yankees career is his Yankees career. Nobody is putting him in the Orioles HOF based on what he did as a Yankee.

Rick, I understand that line of thinking and going by merit alone, Mussina's induction is a no brainer. Unfortunately, for me an Orioles HoFer should not be a guy who left for your rival. I would feel the same way if Ray Lewis had left and gone to the Steelers. I understand there were a lot of factors that led Mussina to become a Yankee and become Mu$$ina, and had he left for any other team (especially outside of our division) I probably would not have such hard feelings toward him, but the fact remains that he not only left, but he went to our main and hated rivals. Something a real Oriole would never do.

When I grew up an Orioles fan in the 70's and early 80's, the reason I loved the Orioles so much was because we were always the underdog. Each year it seemed like we'd lose a top player to free agency and each year we would find a way to defeat the overpaid Yankees. I use to get the "Complete Handbook of baseball" by Zander Hollander every year, and every year they would show how much the Reggie Jackson's and Dave Winfield's of the world would get from the Yankees, yet the Orioles found a way to come out on top by year's end. We did this with guys like Cal Ripken, Eddie Murray, Mike Flanagan, Scott McGregor and Ken Singleton. these are guys who were Orioles, and they took pride in beating the Yankees and their huge bloated payrolls. They never would have considered leaving the Orioles and go to the Yankees because that would have been heresy.

The idea idea behind being an Oriole was that you were part of that band of brothers who found a way to defeat the overpaid Yankees. Mu$$ina is the only one of these "band of brothers" who ever left the team and signed with the Yankees while in his prime. I can not find it in my heart to forgive him and probably never will. Regardless of how much Angelos has ruined this organization, he can never take away my "band of brothers" attitude that was ingrained in me during my youth.

I will never work for the Orioles nor will I ever play for them, but I will always feel like they are "my" team. That means I take it seriously when one of them leaves and goes to our biggest rival. I understand the business part of baseball, but in my opinion, you lose your Orioles card the day you shun them for your rivals.

I guess the good thing as we've stunk for so long that we really don't have a rival anymore. So when Wieters or Jones signs with the Yankees one day, it will be a lot easier to take.

[Dipper9]

Rick, I understand that line of thinking and going by merit alone, Mussina's induction is a no brainer. Unfortunately, for me an Orioles HoFer should not be a guy who left for your rival. I would feel the same way if Ray Lewis had left and gone to the Steelers. I understand there were a lot of factors that led Mussina to become a Yankee and become Mu$$ina, and had he left for any other team (especially outside of our division) I probably would not have such hard feelings toward him, but the fact remains that he not only left, but he went to our main and hated rivals. Something a real Oriole would never do.

When I grew up an Orioles fan in the 70's and early 80's, the reason I loved the Orioles so much was because we were always the underdog. Each year it seemed like we'd lose a top player to free agency and each year we would find a way to defeat the overpaid Yankees. I use to get the "Complete Handbook of baseball" by Zander Hollander every year, and every year they would show how much the Reggie Jackson's and Dave Winfield's of the world would get from the Yankees, yet the Orioles found a way to come out on top by year's end. We did this with guys like Cal Ripken, Eddie Murray, Mike Flanagan, Scott McGregor and Ken Singleton. these are guys who were Orioles, and they took pride in beating the Yankees and their huge bloated payrolls. They never would have considered leaving the Orioles and go to the Yankees because that would have been heresy.

The idea idea behind being an Oriole was that you were part of that band of brothers who found a way to defeat the overpaid Yankees. Mu$$ina is the only one of these "band of brothers" who ever left the team and signed with the Yankees while in his prime. I can not find it in my heart to forgive him and probably never will. Regardless of how much Angelos has ruined this organization, he can never take away my "band of brothers" attitude that was ingrained in me during my youth.

I will never work for the Orioles nor will I ever play for them, but I will always feel like they are "my" team. That means I take it seriously when one of them leaves and goes to our biggest rival. I understand the business part of baseball, but in my opinion, you lose your Orioles card the day you shun them for your rivals.

I guess the good thing as we've stunk for so long that we really don't have a rival anymore. So when Wieters or Jones signs with the Yankees one day, it will be a lot easier to take.

I agree with everything you say here, but I will add this. Singy was on one of the local shows on the Fan in the late Summer, right after Flanny's passing. Ken brought up all the sentiments that you are about the Orioles being a family. But he also added one thing. He said if that team was together today, that they (the Orioles) would not have been able to keep the team together because many of them would be making too much money, and they would not have stayed with the Orioles over taking the money from free agency. Now, this was just one man's opinion, but he was an Oriole through and through (even though he came from NY and is now a Yankee broadcaster).

My point is the Baltimore Orioles that we all grew up loving in the 60's-early 80's played in a different era of the sport, and while its easy to say they were family, one has to wonder if the "family ties" would have been stronger than the lore and money of free agency that exists today.

[ConnO'sFan]

Rick, I understand that line of thinking and going by merit alone, Mussina's induction is a no brainer. Unfortunately, for me an Orioles HoFer should not be a guy who left for your rival. I would feel the same way if Ray Lewis had left and gone to the Steelers. I understand there were a lot of factors that led Mussina to become a Yankee and become Mu$$ina, and had he left for any other team (especially outside of our division) I probably would not have such hard feelings toward him, but the fact remains that he not only left, but he went to our main and hated rivals. Something a real Oriole would never do.

When I grew up an Orioles fan in the 70's and early 80's, the reason I loved the Orioles so much was because we were always the underdog. Each year it seemed like we'd lose a top player to free agency and each year we would find a way to defeat the overpaid Yankees. I use to get the "Complete Handbook of baseball" by Zander Hollander every year, and every year they would show how much the Reggie Jackson's and Dave Winfield's of the world would get from the Yankees, yet the Orioles found a way to come out on top by year's end. We did this with guys like Cal Ripken, Eddie Murray, Mike Flanagan, Scott McGregor and Ken Singleton. these are guys who were Orioles, and they took pride in beating the Yankees and their huge bloated payrolls. They never would have considered leaving the Orioles and go to the Yankees because that would have been heresy.

The idea idea behind being an Oriole was that you were part of that band of brothers who found a way to defeat the overpaid Yankees. Mu$$ina is the only one of these "band of brothers" who ever left the team and signed with the Yankees while in his prime. I can not find it in my heart to forgive him and probably never will. Regardless of how much Angelos has ruined this organization, he can never take away my "band of brothers" attitude that was ingrained in me during my youth.

I will never work for the Orioles nor will I ever play for them, but I will always feel like they are "my" team. That means I take it seriously when one of them leaves and goes to our biggest rival. I understand the business part of baseball, but in my opinion, you lose your Orioles card the day you shun them for your rivals.

I guess the good thing as we've stunk for so long that we really don't have a rival anymore. So when Wieters or Jones signs with the Yankees one day, it will be a lot easier to take.

THAT about sums it up Tony. But did you have to mention Singleton? That also kills me when I see him on YES. Can't help it.

[Il BuonO]

Wow, between Tony's response and some of the other more forgiving ones I guess I'm confused. I remember being very disappointed, but since I don't live there maybe I didn't get the inside dope.

It seemed to me that he wanted to play for a contender the O's weren't that and money wasn't that big of an issue. Did PA make him a competitive offer our was it a lowball offer as has been his m.o.?

[OrioleMagic]

I don't give a crap if I'm the only one that feels this way. Mu$$ina is a turncoat bum. I hope he wears his Yankees hat and the Orioles hold the ceremony during a Yankees games so his fans that invade the yard can cheer him on. Mu$$ina choose to be a Yankee. That's how he should be remember, not as an Orioles HoFer.

How can we fans be angry at Mussina for taking over $100 million when Angelos wouldn't even give him the $60 million to extend about a year before he left? What was in the best interests of his family? (I am going on memory here and may be off a little on the numbers...I hope I'm not missing anything, but this is the way I remember it going down.) I hate the Yankees as much as anybody, but the O's are to blame for this one.

[Dipper9]

Wow, between Tony's response and some of the other more forgiving ones I guess I'm confused. I remember being very disappointed, but since I don't live there maybe I didn't get the inside dope.

It seemed to me that he wanted to play for a contender the O's weren't that and money wasn't that big of an issue. Did PA make him a competitive offer our was it a lowball offer as has been his m.o.?

Moose accepted a team friendly offer to stay with the team the first time he became a free agent. The second time around, he wanted fair value, and Angelos balked. It wasn't until he was made an offer from the Yankees that Angelos finally gave in and offered him what Moose wanted, but apparently it was too late.

[Tony-OH]

THAT about sums it up Tony. But did you have to mention Singleton? That also kills me when I see him on YES. Can't help it.

I don't have a problem with Singleton being a Yankees broadcaster. Everyone needs to make a living and the Orioles had chances to bring Singelton in before he was embedded with YES. Singleton is a first class guy, still lives near Baltimore and he still follows the team, even if he his disappointed (like all of us) in how the organization has been run into the ground over the years. Growing up, Singleton was one my favorite players and I would love for him to be announcing for the Orioles instead of YES, but he's treated well by the Yankees and enjoys his time there. Can't really blame the man for that.

[TGO]

Tony, just to quibble with one thing, in the mid-late 90s the Orioles essentially became the Yankees. In 1998 we were the top spender in all of baseball after placing 2nd for a couple of years. I know it's not easy to recall that time now that our owner has been committed to crying poor for the last 10 years, but that is the Orioles team that Mussina walked away from, not the Orioles Magic gang you recall so fondly.

[Frobby]

Wow, between Tony's response and some of the other more forgiving ones I guess I'm confused. I remember being very disappointed, but since I don't live there maybe I didn't get the inside dope.

It seemed to me that he wanted to play for a contender the O's weren't that and money wasn't that big of an issue. Did PA make him a competitive offer our was it a lowball offer as has been his m.o.?

Long story. Angelos really lowballed Mussina for a long time in the negotiations over the course of about a year, and then once the free agent period finally started, offered Mussina about $10 mm less than he got from the Yankees. The deal he finally offered Mussina would have been more than enough to keep him if he had made it earlier. His original offers were clearly below market value and I think Moose got his nose bent out of joint. See: Rafael Palmeiro 1998.

[Tony-OH]

I agree with everything you say here, but I will add this. Singy was on one of the local shows on the Fan in the late Summer, right after Flanny's passing. Ken brought up all the sentiments that you are about the Orioles being a family. But he also added one thing. He said if that team was together today, that they (the Orioles) would not have been able to keep the team together because many of them would be making too much money, and they would not have stayed with the Orioles over taking the money from free agency. Now, this was just one man's opinion, but he was an Oriole through and through (even though he came from NY and is now a Yankee broadcaster).

My point is the Baltimore Orioles that we all grew up loving in the 60's-early 80's played in a different era of the sport, and while its easy to say they were family, one has to wonder if the "family ties" would have been stronger than the lore and money of free agency that exists today.

Maybe some would have gotten bigger contracts (although most of the time I'm talking about was during free agency) elsewhere, but I doubt any of them would have signed with the Yankees unless they were blown away. If the orioles were offering $10 million and year the Yankes were offering $20 million, I really couldn't fault Mu$$ina for leaving, even if it was the Yankees. But at the end, Mu$$ina was offered what he asked for and turned it down out of spite.

[ConnO'sFan]

I don't have a problem with Singleton being a Yankees broadcaster. Everyone needs to make a living and the Orioles had chances to bring Singelton in before he was embedded with YES. Singleton is a first class guy, still lives near Baltimore and he still follows the team, even if he his disappointed (like all of us) in how the organization has been run into the ground over the years. Growing up, Singleton was one my favorite players and I would love for him to be announcing for the Orioles instead of YES, but he's treated well by the Yankees and enjoys his time there. Can't really blame the man for that.

I have no doubt he's a first class guy. In fact, he's often the one to justify/defend/sympathize with the O's during Yank broadcasts. But, SAME thing goes for me...I'd feel

better if he were on the broadcast crew of ANY other team. Sitting beside Michael K is a kick in the groin.

[33rdst]

Here is Mussina's reaction to him selection. He handled the questions pretty well IMO.

http://www.masnsports.com/steve_melewski/2012/03/mike-mussina-and-rich-dauer-talk-about-making-the-orioles-hall-of-fame.html

[Dipper9]

Maybe some would have gotten bigger contracts (although most of the time I'm talking about was during free agency) elsewhere, but I doubt any of them would have signed with the Yankees unless they were blown away. If the orioles were offering $10 million and year the Yankes were offering $20 million, I really couldn't fault Mu$$ina for leaving, even if it was the Yankees. But at the end, Mu$$ina was offered what he asked for and turned it down out of spite.

This is probably true, but I don't blame him for it. What we sometimes forget is that these guys are people. Its not Fantasy Baseball and they don;t live their lives for us, the fans. By the time Angelos gave him what he asked for, maybe, Moose thought to himself, "I'm kinda sick and tired of being jerked around by this guy. I think its time to move on."

Just like Pujols.

There are very few Cal's or (dare I say it) Jeter's, or Chipper Jones' left in the world. Most players do not stay with the same team their entire career, especially when the owner is widely accepted as one of the worst in all of sports.

[Tony-OH]

Tony, just to quibble with one thing, in the mid-late 90s the Orioles essentially became the Yankees. In 1998 we were the top spender in all of baseball after placing 2nd for a couple of years. I know it's not easy to recall that time now that our owner has been committed to crying poor for the last 10 years, but that is the Orioles team that Mussina walked away from, not the Orioles Magic gang you recall so fondly.

Mu$$ina's departure signals the end of the Orioles' competitive spending with the Yankees. Two years later the Yankees had doubled our payroll.

Payrolls:

2000 - Baltimore $81,447,435 $2,808,532

2000 - NY Yankees $92,538,260 $3,190,974

2001 - Baltimore $72,426,328 $2,497,460

2001 - NY Yankees $109,791,893 $3,541,674

2002 - Baltimore Orioles $60,493,487 $1,890,421

2002 - NY Yankees $125,928,583 $4,342,365

2003 - Baltimore Orioles $ 73,877,500

2003 - NY Yankees $ 152,749,814