Worth More Going Forward: Tommy Hanson or Adam Jones? (Careful what you wish for)

[atomic]

After spending a decade watching guys like Luis Matos, Corey Patterson, Chris Singleton, and even Karim Garcia play a bad center field and not hit for crap, we finally get a good center fielder. Now all anyone wants to do is trade him. How about spending some of that MASN money and improving the team and building around the good players? I have no interest in seeing the Orioles constantly trade off good players for someone else's somedays and maybe-will-be's. Oakland does it, Pittsburgh does it, and Kansas City did it. What do those teams all have in common?

The Orioles don't HAVE to be cheap and crappy. The organization just chooses to. They've been rebuilding this thing for a decade now, and a LOT of people on this board just keeps giving them a pass, thinking they're going to really build something this time. And now that they actually have decent players, you forget about all the stiffs they tried to build with the first few times who never made it. Work with the talent you have. Fans should line up with pitchforks and torches outside the warehouse if Jones is traded.

If they trade Jones for prospects it is a terrible deal. They need starting pitching for next year and more. If they can't get it keep Jones. It's as if people on here only think about trading for prospects. We did that 4 years ago it didn't work. You need to trade for proven players.

If you can't major league players for him worst case scenario he plays here the next two years and you get a compensation pick.

[allstar1579]

I said in the other thread...one of the 12...that SFN and SD would be the two teams I would look to match up with. I was worried that I wouldn't see a lot in SFN I liked, but Belt would be a good start. I would let them keep Brown, and deal Jones and Bell for Belt, Gillaspie and Bond. (Or try to at least)

[allstar1579]

After spending a decade watching guys like Luis Matos, Corey Patterson, Chris Singleton, and even Karim Garcia play a bad center field and not hit for crap, we finally get a good center fielder. Now all anyone wants to do is trade him. How about spending some of that MASN money and improving the team and building around the good players? I have no interest in seeing the Orioles constantly trade off good players for someone else's somedays and maybe-will-be's. Oakland does it, Pittsburgh does it, and Kansas City did it. What do those teams all have in common?

The Orioles don't HAVE to be cheap and crappy. The organization just chooses to. They've been rebuilding this thing for a decade now, and a LOT of people on this board just keeps giving them a pass, thinking they're going to really build something this time. And now that they actually have decent players, you forget about all the stiffs they tried to build with the first few times who never made it. Work with the talent you have. Fans should line up with pitchforks and torches outside the warehouse if Jones is traded.

I agree with you, I really do, but I'm pretty convinced Jones is going to bail as soon as he's a FA regardless of who we add between now and then, so that being considered, his value is at max right now, and I'd deal him before he breaks a wrist and misses the season.

[CA-ORIOLE]

I agree with you, I really do, but I'm pretty convinced Jones is going to bail as soon as he's a FA regardless of who we add between now and then, so that being considered, his value is at max right now, and I'd deal him before he breaks a wrist and misses the season.

Would you want to give Jones a Markakis type extension?

[allstar1579]

Would you want to give Jones a Markakis type extension?

I don't think I would go QUITE that high, I don't like the plate discipline for that much money, but I'd consider it and I'd go near or over $10m per, but I'd rather trade Markakis and shift Reimold to RF if we go that route.

[CA-ORIOLE]

I don't think I would go QUITE that high, I don't like the plate discipline for that much money, but I'd consider it and I'd go near or over $10m per, but I'd rather trade Markakis and shift Reimold to RF if we go that route.

I think Jones values himself pretty highly. You referrred it as to big for his britches. I don't think that's far off. When you look at the valuations his main drawback statistically is defense. He's a fine offensive CF'er even with the OBP issues. I can guarantee you Jones does not think of himself as a below average defensive centerfielder. He's gonna want Markakis type money to extend imo. Better to move him now. Unless he becomes a prolific HR hitter (which he may) and move to corner OF, I don't see the upside there.

[allstar1579]

I think Jones values himself pretty highly. You referrred it as to big for his britches. I don't think that's far off. When you look at the valuations his main drawback statistically is defense. He's a fine offensive CF'er even with the OBP issues. I can guarantee you Jones does not think of himself as a below average defensive centerfielder. He's gonna want Markakis type money to extend imo. Better to move him now. Unless he becomes a prolific HR hitter (which he may) and move to corner OF, I don't see the upside there.

Yeah that's pretty much how I feel. I just don't see him taking another jump power wise, and I don't think he's going to make more contact unless he magically learns to be more selective at the plate. I think 2 years out from FA before this season happens and people see him as young, cheap with upside is his max value. I mean it's not out of the realm to think he could be a 3 WAR player and be worth $15m, but paying him and Markakis almost $30m for the production we are getting out there doesn't seem like it's a good use of money.

Getting Alonso or Belt seem like my favorite choices for him, if CLE didn't sign Grady I would have tried there for Masterson, he's got one of the best sinkers in baseball right now and something like a 3-1 GB ratio.

[Dannyboy]

I believe Philly was showing some intrest in Jones before the got Pence. And thats a team that could use another RH bat in there lineup.

[JohnD]

Jones has more than capably filled a hole we spent a decade complaining about. At a certain point you have to stop rebuilding and start building around someone. Especially when they play up the middle, which is where baseball people tell you that's where you need to start. When is that going to happen? Ever? Trade Jones and the cycle just starts over again, and in three years we'll talk about trading whoever else for the next batch. On and on it goes. Just like all the other loser teams in MLB do.

[Roll Tide]

Jones has more than capably filled a hole we spent a decade complaining about. At a certain point you have to stop rebuilding and start building around someone. Especially when they play up the middle, which is where baseball people tell you that's where you need to start. When is that going to happen? Ever? Trade Jones and the cycle just starts over again, and in three years we'll talk about trading whoever else for the next batch. On and on it goes. Just like all the other loser teams in MLB do.

John ...As I said previously the Owner is the problem. he wants everyone to believe the Orioles are a small market team. He points to the attendance to make his point. The fact that it conveniently coincides with his last attempt to field a competative team was in the late 90s. The attendance is his fault and the fact that the Yankees fund their whole payroll with Yes Network money while Peter pockets his and donates token amounts to soup kitchens. Fact is he is a lousy owner and we can only hope that his family will fight over his estate once he departs the world and forces the sale of this once proud franchise.

[JohnD]

I don't disagree with you. But I'm not going to let that be an excuse for why this team is a losing organization. Ownership is the problem, but ownership can fix it. Just shrugging it off and saying this is the best of a crappy situation isn't good enough for me.

[Roll Tide]

I don't disagree with you. But I'm not going to let that be an excuse for why this team is a losing organization. Ownership is the problem, but ownership can fix it. Just shrugging it off and saying this is the best of a crappy situation isn't good enough for me.

I agree ...But its been more than 10 years for the same ole'. Since Belle retired and swiped a ton of money from the Orioles Angelos hasnt over spent on any player. Now Roberts basically did the same thing last season and looks like he's done.

And the three year pitching rule (they seems to be true) based on the Orioles actions automatically eliminates them from getting good free agent pitching.

[Boston Dave]

I don't disagree with you. But I'm not going to let that be an excuse for why this team is a losing organization. Ownership is the problem, but ownership can fix it. Just shrugging it off and saying this is the best of a crappy situation isn't good enough for me.

I think I'm buying what you're selling, John. If we get blown away with a can't miss offer- move him (and that applies to any player, at any time). If he has signaled he will not re-up here- move him while he has maximum value. But otherwise, I'm offering him market-money for performance, and making him and Matt the faces of the franchise.

[Lucky Jim]

Given our off-season discussion re: Braves pitchers, discuss.

[Swampdonks]

As a Braves fan, I'll say Adam Jones.

Tommy just isn't the same pitcher as he has been in the prior years. Still a very good pitcher, but one that has to rely on his breaking ball now instead of his fastball.