Soriano Rejects 5 years 70 Million from Nats

[Frobby]

Then we should be persuing (and we could be) these routes first. I wouldn't give up DCab for Tex. So if that's a requirement, we need to either trade for a promising 1b like Kotchman/Huber/Shealy/Carter or sign a one year stop gap with the idea of making a play for Tex after next season.

I assume you know that Tex is not a free agent for two more years. I don't think a one-year stop gap makes any sense.

[rolliefingers]

Burrell and Ensberg will both be available for cheap, meaning we wouldnt have to give up DCab Loewen or Bedard.

Tex on the other hand would probably take at least DCab. Although there is a slim chance we could package Benson, Penn and another prospect for him.

I think getting Ensberg would be my top priority, depending on what they want. That OBP is sick.

Then I'd move Mora to LF, trade Liz for a guy like Carter or Huber, let Millar and Gibbons DH then focus on the bench and bullpen.

[Fan4Life]

I assume you know that Tex is not a free agent for two more years. I don't think a one-year stop gap makes any sense.

No, I didn't realize that... make that a 2 year stop gap... Nomar, etc.. I'm not sure I am for that option, but just that it is one.

[El Gordo]

Yep, it is their pitching that is responsibile for where they are today. Their success has very little to do w/their "risk taking" on big money players.

I don't think they'd of been any less successful if they had Tejada's offense in their lineup and Ramon Hernandez behind the plate instead of Ordonez and IROD. I don't the Orioles would of been any more successful if they had Ordonez offensive production instead of Tejada's and had IROD as their catcher.

Their pitching gelling at the same time is a primary reason. But they wouldn't be where they are today, namely in the WS, if you remove Rogers, Pudge, and Mags from the equation.

[geschinger]

Their pitching gelling at the same time is a primary reason. But they wouldn't be where they are today, namely in the WS, if you remove Rogers, Pudge, and Mags from the equation.

I agree with that. But the argument that was made was that the Tigers were willing to take risks, the Orioles aren't. That is why the Tigers are successful and the Orioles are not.

Replace Rogers, Pudge and Mags with Benson, Ramon Hernandez and Tejada and I'd argue that they might have been an even better team.

[rolliefingers]

Their pitching gelling at the same time is a primary reason. But they wouldn't be where they are today, namely in the WS, if you remove Rogers, Pudge, and Mags from the equation.

Rogers? Sure. Solid GB/FB ratio. That was a good calculated risk.

Pudge? Perhaps; his offense hasn't been good, but he is an excellent defender. Ramon is almost as good defensively, better offensively, younger and cheaper.

Maggs? That's where I completely disagree. His OPS is already very low for someone making what he makes. You could pay Dellucci and Cruz about $4 mil total to put up those numbers. He's on the wrong side of 30, and I wouldn't be surprised if he's struggling to post a .700 OPS by the end of his contract.

[Mackus]

I think getting Ensberg would be my top priority, depending on what they want. That OBP is sick.

Then I'd move Mora to LF, trade Liz for a guy like Carter or Huber, let Millar and Gibbons DH then focus on the bench and bullpen.

Solid plan, although everything i've read on Carter says he's destined to be a DH. If you get him, maybe he DHs and Gibbons/Millar play 1B.

[rolliefingers]

Solid plan, although everything i've read on Carter says he's destined to be a DH. If you get him, maybe he DHs and Gibbons/Millar play 1B.

Good point. I would place a premium on defense, actually, which is why I'm annoyed we didn't go hard after Adrian Gonzalez.

Add Kotchman to the list of guys I'd look into.

[Fan4Life]

Solid plan, although everything i've read on Carter says he's destined to be a DH. If you get him, maybe he DHs and Gibbons/Millar play 1B.

Yeah.. the last couple of seasons Millar has hit better against rhp than lhp...

[rolliefingers]

Yeah.. the last couple of seasons Millar has hit better against rhp than lhp...

If we kept both, I wouldn't necessarily make it a strict platoon. Millar should definitely get most or all of the ABs vs. LHPs.

Honestly, I would try to trade Gibbons and just make Millar the everyday DH, since he seems to do better playing everyday.

[Frobby]

Maggs? That's where I completely disagree. His OPS is already very low for someone making what he makes. You could pay Dellucci and Cruz about $4 mil total to put up those numbers. He's on the wrong side of 30, and I wouldn't be surprised if he's struggling to post a .700 OPS by the end of his contract.

So "all" Ordonez did was hit .298 and knock in 104 runs (most on the team by far) for a team going to the World Series. I'm sure the Tiger fans feel terrrible that he is overpaid.

Paying superstar money for a guy who turns out to be merely above average almost always is still better than paying below average money for a guy who is below average.

As for Cruz/Dellucci, they combined for 56 RBI in 497 AB, compared to Ordonez's 104 RBI in 593 AB. You can talk to me until you are blue in the face about "if they were used properly," or how many RBI opportunities they did or didn't have, but I have a very hard time believing they would have matched Ordonez's production or even come close.

The Ordonez deal could still turn out poorly in the long run, but as I said, the Tigers will have their pennant the console them.

[rolliefingers]

So "all" Ordonez did was hit .298 and knock in 104 runs (most on the team by far) for a team going to the World Series. I'm sure the Tiger fans feel terrrible that he is overpaid.

Paying superstar money for a guy who turns out to be merely above average almost always is still better than paying below average money for a guy who is below average.

As for Cruz/Dellucci, they combined for 56 RBI in 497 AB, compared to Ordonez's 104 RBI in 593 AB. You can talk to me until you are blue in the face about "if they were used properly," or how many RBI opportunities they did or didn't have, but I have a very hard time believing they would have matched Ordonez's production or even come close.

Well, since Ordonez had all but TWO of his 600+ PAs this year in the cleanup hole, I would hope he had 100 RBIs. I'm surprised to hear you using that argument.

The Ordonez deal could still turn out poorly in the long run, but as I said, the Tigers will have their pennant the console them.

Like I said way back there in response to Boca, if you could tell me right now that giving Soriano 6/96 would result in an Orioles World Championship - even if it crippled the franchise before or after - then of course I'd do it. But we have many, many more needs than just a LF. DET is winning because of Bonderman, Rogers and Verlander, far more than they are because of Ordonez.

Boca seems to think that Soriano = playoffs, whereas I'd rather spend that money on several good players rather than one guy who isn't even that great.

[erb8472]

Well, since Ordonez had all but TWO of his 600+ PAs this year in the cleanup hole, I would hope he had 100 RBIs. I'm surprised to hear you using that argument.

Like I said way back there in response to Boca, if you could tell me right now that giving Soriano 6/96 would result in an Orioles World Championship - even if it crippled the franchise before or after - then of course I'd do it. But we have many, many more needs than just a LF. DET is winning because of Bonderman, Rogers and Verlander, far more than they are because of Ordonez.

Boca seems to think that Soriano = playoffs, whereas I'd rather spend that money on several good players rather than one guy who isn't even that great.

I'm joining this discussion a little late, but I agree with I-Stall.

I rather spread my eggs out, rather than throw them all in one basket.

Soriano is the type of FA would should avoid like the plague. I've said it before, and I'll continue saying it.

Stay away, and let someone else overpay.

If I continue to rhyme, it could possibly be a message board crime.

[Frobby]

Like I said way back there in response to Boca, if you could tell me right now that giving Soriano 6/96 would result in an Orioles World Championship - even if it crippled the franchise before or after - then of course I'd do it. But we have many, many more needs than just a LF. DET is winning because of Bonderman, Rogers and Verlander, far more than they are because of Ordonez.

Boca seems to think that Soriano = playoffs, whereas I'd rather spend that money on several good players rather than one guy who isn't even that great.

I completely agree that pitching has been the key to the Tigers' success. However, ask yourself this question: if the Tigers had Brandon Fahey, Jeff Conine and David Newhan manning Ordonez's OF spot, would they have made the playoffs?

I agree the Orioles have many needs, and just adding a LF doesn't make us a playoff contender. But LF is our biggest, gaping hole. I'm sure I don't need to tell you this but:

2005: .239/.289/.381/.639 (14th/14 in the AL)

2006: .248/.322/.359/.682 (13th/14 in the AL)

We could take our weakest spot and turn it into a strength overnight. To me that's well worth doing, even at a high cost. And I don't feel that would prevent the team from improving itself elsewhere.

[clapdiddy]

Sorry to keep beating a dead horse here, but we really have to come to the realization that NO (and...I've said this before) major free agent is going to come here. The market has only a few premium free agents, and good teams have holes that need to be filled.

The Angels, Cubs, Red Sox, Dodgers, White Sox, Astros, and others will be major players for the top free agents this year. Unless the O's offer an insane amount of money to Soriano or Lee, they AREN'T COMING HERE!

The Tigers had some foresight (and luck) in plopping down a lot of money to Rodriguez and Ordonez. If we would've given Ordonez that contract, the people on this board would be livid. And...there's no way he would've been part of a winner on this team. We'd be complaining about how hamstrung we are by his contract.

Again...we need to make smart trades to acquire young, hungry talent that will be here for a few years. Keep the young pitching, but don't be afraid to trade a Bedard or Ray if you are blown away with an offer.