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Orioles add Independent League Pitchers L Mahon & C Johnson.

Roll Tide

By Roll Tide
in Orioles Talk

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ChaosLex Hangout Grand Counsel

ChaosLex

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Again ...Your just being a jerk ... I said front loaded and now you come up with a list of back loaded. why dont you add Bonilla also. What in gods name does that have to do with front loaded contracts starting to happen????

Can you name any other players with front loaded contracts starting to happen?

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Brendan25 All-Star

Brendan25

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OK we will agree to disagree ...You said those contracts dont happen. I showed you a current example of one that did. Your not happy with that example because it proves you wrong. Then you add a 3-5 year stipulation to void the example. As I said Hamilton is a perfect example of a guy this type of contract will work for. Older player with past substance abuse problems.

You said that the contracts that you offered to Hamilton are "beginning to happen". You backed that up with a 2 year deal to Ortiz that payed him 3 million more in the first year then the second. If that's your proof that the 5 year frontloaded contract to Hamilton will work then you just keep living in your sheltered little world.

You comparing a 5 year, 120 million dollar front loaded contract to a 2 year, 25 million dollar contract is pretty hilarious.

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Brendan25 All-Star

Brendan25

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Again ...Your just being a jerk ... I said front loaded and now you come up with a list of back loaded. why dont you add Bonilla also. What in gods name does that have to do with front loaded contracts starting to happen????

It's all of the top free agents of the past two years who signed multi year contracts. Every single one (except Ortiz, your only prized possession in this argument) signed a backloaded contract.

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stomperspc Major Leaguer Cup of Coffee

stomperspc

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Yes ... I undertsand how it works...But thats all the Orioles have done since they signed Tejada.

Do you honestly believe that?

I think you would find that you would get far less grief if you didn't resort to such hyperbole on a regular basis. The Orioles have signed plenty of free agents since Tejada to significant annual salaries. Not $15 m plus or anything, but far from the "dumpster diving" deals you claim they have only done since signing him. The problem was that the vast majority of those signings were not good ones. The problem was not that the Orioles were not signing enough high-salaried players. They have extended several of their own players to high annual salaried contracts. Just because those guys aren't free agents doesn't mean they "don't count". They have made of several trades that have brought back valuable players.

It is one thing to say "I think Josh Hamilton would really help the team win and is worth the cost." Not many people would jump on you for a statement like that. It is when you and others begin to statements like the one above that people really take issue with.

These signings have nothing to do with Hamilton, Butler or anyone else. They are depth signings that every team makes. Sometimes, they even work out really well (Miguel Gonzalez and George Sherril for two examples).

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waroriole Hangout Grand Counsel

waroriole

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Whatever dude ...you cant even admit you're wrong. I said starting to happen...Here's the definition www.thefreedictionary.com/start . To have a beginning; commence in case you missed the day in grade school it was taught.

Ortiz is the perfect example of a player that type of contract fits. He's older but still producing at a pretty high level. The Red Sox are concerned about his health mainly...so they are protected if he misses games. A contract similar would be great for Hamilton .... If he will agree to a 5 year deal at $100 million ...Who cares the breakdown ..he's still getting the $100 Million. His agent is still getting his 5%.

This is hilarious. You found one example, and the player you found isn't even a comparable player. It was a 2 year deal.

Also, nice touch putting the definition in there.

Finally, the player would want a front loaded deal, but the team would be foolish to do it as the value of the dollar is worth more in the present than it will be in the future.

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Roll Tide Hangout Grand Counsel

Roll Tide

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Do you honestly believe that?

I think you would find that you would get far less grief if you didn't resort to such hyperbole on a regular basis. The Orioles have signed plenty of free agents since Tejada to significant annual salaries. Not $15 m plus or anything, but far from the "dumpster diving" deals you claim they have only done since signing him. The problem was that the vast majority of those signings were not good ones. The problem was not that the Orioles were not signing enough high-salaried players. They have extended several of their own players to high annual salaried contracts. Just because those guys aren't free agents doesn't mean they "don't count". They have made of several trades that have brought back valuable players.

It is one thing to say "I think Josh Hamilton would really help the team win and is worth the cost." Not many people would jump on you for a statement like that. It is when you and others begin to statements like the one above that people really take issue with.

These signings have nothing to do with Hamilton, Butler or anyone else. They are depth signings that every team makes. Sometimes, they even work out really well (Miguel Gonzalez and George Sherril for two examples).

. Who have they signed? Gonzalez was a bargain bin and Sherril was pickex up in the bedard trade.
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weams Hangout Grand Counsel

weams

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More Dumpster Diving:thumbsup1::rolleyes:

The live cheap crowd gets a few more names to drool over. The front office hoping to catch lightning in a bottle.

Mahon a strike out per inning in rookie ball, a 22nd round pick that fell off the radar. Only 22. Johnson a 24 year old 6'5 245 lb'r also a k per inning up to A ball.

I do not suspect either of these guys to play for the Orioles. But when Dan trades two pitchers next week. These guys will fill some lower level spring training spots.

Like Pomeranz and Gonzalez and Neshek did last year.

Yes, I believe that part of being an Oriole fan is learning to live modestly. Sometimes, it takes a decade or two to give in to that.;)

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Crazysilver03 Hangout Grand Counsel

Crazysilver03

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Can you name any other players with front loaded contracts starting to happen?

There seem to be a handful of players who are having their contracts mid-loaded.

Guthrie's deal is $5M in 2013, $11M in 2014, and $9M in 2015.

Kinsler's extension: 13:$13M, 14:$16M, 15:$16M, 16:$14M, 17:$11M, 18:$10M club option ($5M buyout)

Front-loading isn't happening like JohnnyK thinks it is. And it isn't going to happen with more revenue expected down the line.

Of course, he goes around calling others a jerk in this thread when the whole premise is asinine. Two minor league moves that wouldn't have even made it to the interwebs 5 years ago is being used as evidence the Orioles are cheap. Classic.

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Number5 Hangout Grand Counsel

Number5

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I would hardly call the Ortiz contract backloaded. He gets $15MM if he spends less than 21 days on the DL in 2013 specifically due to his pre-existing Achilles injury. It isn't even based on games played, it is merely being on the active roster. From Cots:

"2014 salary may increase to $13M or $15M based on days on active roster in 2013 ($15M if he spends 20 days or fewer on the disabled list with pre-existing Achilles injury)"

This is clearly a clause meant to slightly lower the risk the Red Sox are taking with a 2-year contract for an older player with a known injury. Sorry, JohnnyK, but I don't see how this supports what you are saying at all.

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stomperspc Major Leaguer Cup of Coffee

stomperspc

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. Who have they signed? Gonzalez was a bargain bin and Sherril was pickex up in the bedard trade.

Sorry, maybe I wasn't clear but I was referencing Gonzalez and Sherrill as two guys that teams picked up from outside the Majors (Seattle picked up Sherrill from the Northern Central League and Gonzalez was effectively out of the Majors when the O's signed him) that ended up becoming valuable Major League players. It doesn't happen often, but the risk-reward trade off makes taking chances on those guys worth it.

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Roll Tide Hangout Grand Counsel

Roll Tide

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This is hilarious. You found one example, and the player you found isn't even a comparable player. It was a 2 year deal.

Also, nice touch putting the definition in there.

Finally, the player would want a front loaded deal, but the team would be foolish to do it as the value of the dollar is worth more in the present than it will be in the future.

Yeah but it controls the impact of the burden to payroll in the last few years when the player isnt worth $20 million.

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