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O's will probably make a trade at the meetings

Going Underground

By Going Underground
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NATTYBO's Major Leaguer Cup of Coffee

NATTYBO's

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I dont mean to sound like I am putting all of my eggs in one basket but I think that when it comes to Butler, you're talking about a guy that can take us from possibly a AL East contended for the next 3-5 years to definitely a contender. If we are able to make a move for Butler for say Tillman straight up or even Tillman+ and then resign even just Saunders (Obviously we'd like McLouth back at the right price) you're looking at a scary lineup. If all are healthy (I realize 100% health is not likely) this is what you have as a possible lineup

2B Roberts/Casilla

RF Markakis

CF Jones

DH Butler

1B Davis

C Wieters

LF McLouth/Reimold

3B Machado

SS Hardy

OF/INF Betimeit

OF Robinson/McLouth/Reimold

INF Pearce/Valencia/Casilla

C (Whoever they decide is our backup)

SP Hammel

SP Chen

SP Gonzo

SP Saunders

SP Arrieta/Johnson/Bundy/Wada

RP ODay

RP Hunter

RP Matusz/Patton

RP Strop

RP Ayala

CL Johnson

I feel like this is a VERY competitive team and when you add in Butlers 29 HRs and 107 RBI to a young talented team from last year and look out.

I agree with your thinking but if we were to trade Tillman for Butler and resign Saunders would we be better off Signing Swisher for the same yearly $$. Is Tillman and Swisher (15MM) better them Saunders(7MM) and Butler(8MM)? Personally I prefer not to have Swisher or Saunders on this team but I guess it's picking the lessor of 2 evils. If we could get Butler for Britton & Arrietta, I'd jump at it....

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Orioles10Fan High-A

Orioles10Fan

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They want Bundy. That's a no go.

They want Bundy ACCORDING to their writer. No one that has to do with the front office of either team has said specifically that they want Bundy or bust. You dont think theyd consider a Tillman plus Schoop or Avery type deal? They're looking to get ride of the salary of Butler in moving him and getting back value... Id say thats fair value...

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Whammer Major Leaguer Cup of Coffee

Whammer

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If it was Tillman straight up the deal would of probably been done by now.

Yep. Reading b/t the lines, it sounds like the O's offered Tillman+. KC is adamant about Bundy. Unless someone sneezes, this deal ain't going down. DD looking at plans B, C, D, . . . .

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waroriole Hangout Grand Counsel

waroriole

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He is also a career .300 hitter in a pitchers park. Give me a .300 average with 20 HRs a season and Id look at you as an EXTREMELY valuable player. Not to mention Butler could hit 30-40 HRs at OPACY. You think people are getting carried away at the thought of replacing Mark Reynolds with Billy Butler? Might want to rethink...

It's probably a net gain of 2-3 wins. If you trade someone like Hammel for him, you just threw those wins out the door. Butler has negative value on the bases, and in the field (for interleague play & the occasions where we need the DH for other people). You also lose a lot of lineup flexibility with the DH.

I think people are getting carried away in what they're willing to give up for Butler. Not you, I don't think your trade gets it done.

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Orioles10Fan

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I agree with your thinking but if we were to trade Tillman for Butler and resign Saunders would we be better off Signing Swisher for the same yearly $$. Is Tillman and Swisher (15MM) better them Saunders(7MM) and Butler(8MM)? Personally I prefer not to have Swisher or Saunders on this team but I guess it's picking the lessor of 2 evils. If we could get Butler for Britton & Arrietta' date=' I'd jump at it....[/quote']

I agree Im a big fan of the thought of signing Swisher. You get a guy with a .272 24 HR 93 RBI guy that can fill all three vacancies we have (LF/1B/DH) not to mention I think hes the kind of guy that gets along with everyone on his team. Love him if you have him hate him if you're against him type guy but I dont think Duquette likes him enough to pay for him or he would have already gone that route ya know

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NATTYBO's Major Leaguer Cup of Coffee

NATTYBO's

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I agree Im a big fan of the thought of signing Swisher. You get a guy with a .272 24 HR 93 RBI guy that can fill all three vacancies we have (LF/1B/DH) not to mention I think hes the kind of guy that gets along with everyone on his team. Love him if you have him hate him if you're against him type guy but I dont think Duquette likes him enough to pay for him or he would have already gone that route ya know

I agree, I will probably like him when he's on the team....I just don't want to watch Saunders on this team for the next couple of years. I think Tillman is going to turn into something special. I think people forget that he's only 24, he's worked on the things that made him inneffective when he was 21/22 and I don't think he had the organizational development he has now.

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Orioles10Fan

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It's probably a net gain of 2-3 wins. If you trade someone like Hammel for him, you just threw those wins out the door. Butler has negative value on the bases, and in the field (for interleague play & the occasions where we need the DH for other people). You also lose a lot of lineup flexibility with the DH.

I think people are getting carried away in what they're willing to give up for Butler. Not you, I don't think your trade gets it done.

Im definitely not in the "Lets give them Bundy and Schoop to get this deal done" boat I just feel like we have pieces that we could give up in order to make the deal happen even if its a combination of say Arrieta/Britton/Matusz+ position prospect in some way to make the deal happen. I feel like there are viable options on the table in free agency in guys like LaRoche and Swisher but I dont think DD is feeling like going that route. The problem with LaRoche is that he wants 3 years and close to 12 Mil and I dont think DD values him that highly (3 years would get him to 10 years of service time giving him his pension, cant blame the guy. Thats why Gomes wanted multi-year) We will see what they decide to do. Roch says some sort of MOO bat deal gets done its just a matter of when rather than if.

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Orioles10Fan

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I agree' date=' I will probably like him when he's on the team....I just don't want to watch Saunders on this team for the next couple of years. I think Tillman is going to turn into something special. I think people forget that he's only 24, he's worked on the things that made him inneffective when he was 21/22 and I don't think he had the organizational development he has now.[/quote']

Agreed. I feel like Tillman is just scratching the surface of his potential and could turn out to be a star but at the same time he could have his highest value of his career right now if things end up not panning out. Its kind of a lose lose situation because come this time next year if we trade him and he has a stellar year then its "Why did we trade him" and if we keep him and he gets lit up next year its "we could have made a deal for butler with him last year" thats just sports gotta take chances. Look how taking a chance and getting Gonzo turned out for us

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Sanfran327 Hangout Grand Counsel

Sanfran327

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Butler's career high in HR before last year was 21. He's had two seasons where he's been a 3 WAR player. I think people are getting a little carried away.

Conversely, what has Tillman done that makes him untradeable? Not that you said that, but Tillman for Butler makes a lot of sense for us. Tillman could still go either way, IMO, while Butler is a known entity.

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waroriole Hangout Grand Counsel

waroriole

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Conversely, what has Tillman done that makes him untradeable? Not that you said that, but Tillman for Butler makes a lot of sense for us. Tillman could still go either way, IMO, while Butler is a known entity.

Yeah, it's a bit of a risk. Tillman only has this past season going for him. He could figure it out and become a TOR SP, which is much more valuable than Butler. He could also fall back into what he was the past few years. DD has a background in player evaluation, so I'm confident in his assessment.

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Number5 Hangout Grand Counsel

Number5

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We seem to have multiple threads on this. As I posted in the other one, I really think we should just move on from Butler if one of the cavalry isn't enough to make the deal. Butler is a DH who has averaged 2.4 WAR the past 4 years. Career high is 2.9 WAR. He is a very good DH, nothing more. He is no superstar. Signing Reynolds and keeping our pitching looks just as attractive to me.

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